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Thread: Donald Rumsfeld covered Iraq briefing papers with Biblical texts

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    Re: Donald Rumsfeld covered Iraq briefing papers with Biblical texts

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    The war in Iraq was waged to secure oil and global economic assets. The data was misrepresented to get public support, it was never the actual reason for going to war.
    And you have some proof of this, right? I know this has been our reason for getting politically involved in the middle east for generations but, this time... please. This may have been discussed among the Bush admin but, it was not the #1 reason to invade Iraq. Where was any plan to secure those assets? Where was any plan to share in the wealth of those oil reserves?

    Here's what Bush was talking about "before" he was gifted the Presidency:

    Condi Rice on Sunday denied allegations by former CIA director George Tenet that Bush came into office determined to have a war against Iraq. This is the interview by Wolf Blitzer of CNN:

    QUESTION: Because you remember Paul O'Neill, the first Treasury Secretary, where he wrote in his first book, The Price of Loyalty with Ron Suskind, and what Ron Suskind later wrote in his own book, The One Percent Solution, that the Bush Administration came in with a mindset to deal with what they called unfinished business with Saddam Hussein.

    SECRETARY RICE: That is simply not true. The President came in looking at a variety of threats. We then had the September 11th events. The September 11th events led to a kind of reassessment of what the threats were. But in the entire period after the President became President, he was trying to put together an international coalition that could deal with Iraq, first by smart sanctions, smarter no-fly zones, then by challenging Saddam Hussein before the Security Council to meet the just demands of the Security Council, and ultimately by having to use military force. But this was an evolution of policy over a long period of time. Of course the President came in concerned about Iraq. President Clinton had used military force against Iraq in 1998. We had gone to war against Iraq in 1991. But the idea that the President had made up his mind when he came to office that he was going to go to war against Iraq is just flat wrong. '


    But here is what Bush's ghost writer Mickey Herskowitz reports Bush saying during an interview when Bush was still governor of Texas in the late 1990s:

    ' He was thinking about invading Iraq in 1999, said author and journalist Mickey Herskowitz. It was on his mind. He said to me: One of the keys to being seen as a great leader is to be seen as a commander-in-chief. And he said, My father had all this political capital built up when he drove the Iraqis out of Kuwait and he wasted it. He said, If I have a chance to invade.if I had that much capital, Im not going to waste it. Im going to get everything passed that I want to get passed and Im going to have a successful presidency. '


    So that was 1999.

    Then we have this account from May, 2000, by journalist Osama Siblani, who met with Bush in Troy, Michigan when he was campaigning for the Republican nomination:

    ' OSAMA SIBLANI: I met with the President, and he wanted to go to Iraq to search for weapons of mass destruction, and he considered the regime an imminent and gathering threat against the United States.

    AMY GOODMAN: You met with the President of the United States?

    OSAMA SIBLANI: Yes, when he was running for election in May of 2000 when he was a governor. He told me just straight to my face, among 12 or maybe 13 republicans at that time here in Michigan at the hotel. I think it was on May 17, 2000, even before he became the nominee for the Republicans. He told me that he was going to take him out, when we talked about Saddam Hussein in Iraq. . .

    And then he said, We have to talk about it later. But at that time he was not privy to any intelligence, and the democrats had occupied the White House for the previous eight years. So, he was not privy to any intelligence whatsoever. He was not the official nominee of the Republican Party, so he didn't know what kind of situation the weapons of mass destruction was at that time. '


    Then let us come to January, 2001, when the Supreme Court had installed Bush in power. Former Secretary of the Treasury Paul O'Neill wrote in his memoirs of the very first Bush cabinet meeting:

    '"The hour almost up, Bush had assignments for everyone ... Rumsfeld and [Joint Chiefs chair Gen. H. Hugh] Shelton, he said, 'should examine our military options.' That included rebuilding the military coalition from the 1991 Gulf War, examining 'how it might look' to use U.S. ground forces in the north and the south of Iraq ... Ten days in, and it was about Iraq."



    O'Neill specifically said that Bush instructed Rumsfeld to look at military options and how it might look to use US ground forces in the north and the south of Iraq.

    How much clearer could it be that Tenet is absolutely right that there was never any serious debate about the merits of 'taking out Saddam' in Bush's inner circle?

    For more evidence that the fix was in with regard to Bush and action against Iraq, see my "The Lies that Led to War" in Salon.com.
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    Now I know you pride yourself as a "true debater" so, please don't resort to that kindergarten response of killing the messenger.
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    Re: Donald Rumsfeld covered Iraq briefing papers with Biblical texts

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    But disgusting frankly but not surprising. I remember the oproar around the world when Bush stupidly said "crusade" in context with the situation in the area.. at least he learned from that some what. However this is on the same epic stupidity and is nothing but more fuel to the fire and "proof" for the enemy to the undecided that they are right and we are not. More fuel to the "war on islam" stuff that has driven so many muslim men and women to the ranks of the radicals....
    I think it is important to note that these where internal memos, not intended for public distribution. So, as much as I would love an extra chance to say Rumsfeld screwed up, I can't actually see that this even qualifies as stupid.

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    Re: Donald Rumsfeld covered Iraq briefing papers with Biblical texts

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I think it is important to note that these where internal memos, not intended for public distribution. So, as much as I would love an extra chance to say Rumsfeld screwed up, I can't actually see that this even qualifies as stupid.
    Yes they were internal memos but they were government internal memos and no religious crap should be in official government internal or external communications. It is showing a favouritism towards a religion period. It is also as I stated another example of the Bush administration almost going out of its way to piss off the Muslim world.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Donald Rumsfeld covered Iraq briefing papers with Biblical texts

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Yes they were internal memos but they were government internal memos and no religious crap should be in official government internal or external communications. It is showing a favouritism towards a religion period. It is also as I stated another example of the Bush administration almost going out of its way to piss off the Muslim world.
    I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree kinda thing. I am vehemently opposed to government involvement in religion in any way, but this really does not seem like that so much. I mean, we are not talking about laying out policy, more status reports as I understand it.

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    Re: Donald Rumsfeld covered Iraq briefing papers with Biblical texts

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    The Iraq war was suposedly fought because Saddam Hussein posed an "imminent threat" to the security of the United States. Now we see these little passages, cherry-picked from the Bible to synchronize with the actions of our military. The obvious appearance is that we are fighting a "holy war". It looks a lot like the Crusades. It is not what was sold to the American people. It is wrong. It is further proof that the previous administration violated their oaths of office and misused the armed forces. We must understand how these people did these things so it can never happen again.
    Will, this statement is ludicrous. While I agree there was cherry picking going on, it wasn't from the bible. The only people who will view this issue as giving the invasion of Iraq an appearance of a holy war are people who already view it as a holy war.

    I have to go with Jerry on this one in a round about way. The war in Iraq was about establishing a U.S. sphere of influence in a resource rich geographic area of the middle east. Or as it was put in the PNAC, "Secure and expand zones of democratic peace." Bush had Iraq on the brain, and in the days after Sept. 11th he saw an opportunity to justify a strategy his closest advisers had been working on for years.
    Last edited by Lerxst; 05-19-09 at 11:00 AM.
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    Re: Donald Rumsfeld covered Iraq briefing papers with Biblical texts

    I do think it was inappropriate for bible quotes to be placed (even if they were just stickies) on memos, etc.

    Even in the government workplace there are standards that religious statements should not be distributed among others on documents.

    However, I don't see this as any more than just a simple mistake that should not be repeated and that's about it.

    Bush didn't try to piss off the Muslim world, that's why they weren't released. If Bush was trying to actually piss off the Muslim world, he would have spoken the quotes in speeches, etc.

    This was a mistake, but a very very small one IMO and not really worth mentioning other than hoping it won't be repeated.

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    Re: Donald Rumsfeld covered Iraq briefing papers with Biblical texts

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree kinda thing. I am vehemently opposed to government involvement in religion in any way, but this really does not seem like that so much. I mean, we are not talking about laying out policy, more status reports as I understand it.
    That is the problem. Once you allow religious talk into government business, then at some point it will take over and government policy will be formed around religious dogma instead of what is best for people. That is why any and all such acts as this one should not only be exposed but if still going on, be punished with a pink slip immediately.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Donald Rumsfeld covered Iraq briefing papers with Biblical texts

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    And what the hell would Christianity want to be associated with wars for? It's not specifically a war like religion, not if you're going on the teachings of Jesus Christ.
    I beg to differ....

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    Re: Donald Rumsfeld covered Iraq briefing papers with Biblical texts

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    I do think it was inappropriate for bible quotes to be placed (even if they were just stickies) on memos, etc.
    What statements like this do is put a chill in the air, helping to prevent any opposition to policies being pushed. These kinds of bible quotes insinuate that the pushed policy is on the side of God and if anyone opposes it they must be against God.

    The people putting those quotes on those papers knew exactly what they were doing. More evidence how corrupt that mob was.
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    Re: Donald Rumsfeld covered Iraq briefing papers with Biblical texts

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    That is the problem. Once you allow religious talk into government business, then at some point it will take over and government policy will be formed around religious dogma instead of what is best for people. That is why any and all such acts as this one should not only be exposed but if still going on, be punished with a pink slip immediately.
    People in government can talk about religion. They just cannot preach it from their position in government, nor promote it officially.

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