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Thread: Obama wins over notre dame

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    Re: Obama wins over notre dame

    Quote Originally Posted by StandUpChuck View Post
    There is no common ground between Catholics and abortion. This "vastly intelligent" man doesn't GET THAT?!? He's so arrogant he thinks his pretty words spoken like Richard Pryor are going to change the core of Catholics?? Maybe if he had a soul he'd know better.
    A clue would be more useful in this instance.

    Thomas Sowell had an interesting comment in a column he wrote last week on the "torture" debate:

    There is a big difference between being ponderous and being serious. It is scary when the President of the United States is not being serious about matters of life and death, saying that there are "other ways" of getting information from terrorists.
    Dear Leader is not serious about abortion.

    This is his take on the abortion debate in this country:
    That's when we begin to say, "Maybe we won't agree on abortion, but we can still agree that this heart-wrenching decision for any woman is not made casually, it has both moral and spiritual dimensions.

    So let us work together to reduce the number of women seeking abortions, let's reduce unintended pregnancies. (Applause.) Let's make adoption more available. (Applause.) Let's provide care and support for women who do carry their children to term. (Applause.) Let's honor the conscience of those who disagree with abortion, and draft a sensible conscience clause, and make sure that all of our health care policies are grounded not only in sound science, but also in clear ethics, as well as respect for the equality of women." Those are things we can do. (Applause.)
    What got overlooked is that, in all the applause lines, there is not a serious statement among them. Perversely, even obscenely, he is casual about a decision he acknowledges is not made casually, and even as he acknowledges the moral/spiritual dimensions to that decision, he declines to articulate the how and the why of his moral and spiritual views on the matter. His solution to the debate is to dodge the debate, even as he acknowledges the central issue that drives the debate: abortion as a form of birth control.

    President Bush, when he opted to restrict funding for embryonic stem cell research in 2001 to 60 lines of stem cells created from already-destroyed embryos, had this to say:

    My position on these issues is shaped by deeply held beliefs. I'm a strong supporter of science and technology, and believe they have the potential for incredible good - to improve lives, to save life, to conquer disease. Research offers hope that millions of our loved ones may be cured of a disease and rid of their suffering. I have friends whose children suffer from juvenile diabetes. Nancy Reagan has written me about President Reagan's struggle with Alzheimer's. My own family has confronted the tragedy of childhood leukemia. And like all Americans, I have great hope for cures.

    I also believe human life is a sacred gift from our creator. I worry about a culture that devalues life, and believe as your president I have an important obligation to foster and encourage respect for life in America and throughout the world.

    And while we're all hopeful about the potential of this research, no one can be certain that the science will live up to the hope it has generated.

    Eight years ago, scientists believed fetal tissue research offered great hope for cures and treatments, yet the progress to date has not lived up to its initial expectations. Embryonic stem cell research offers both great promise and great peril, so I have decided we must proceed with great care.

    As a result of private research, more than 60 genetically diverse stem cell lines already exist. They were created from embryos that have already been destroyed, and they have the ability to regenerate themselves indefinitely, creating ongoing opportunities for research.

    I have concluded that we should allow federal funds to be used for research on these existing stem cell lines, where the life-and-death decision has already been made.
    Whether one agrees or disagrees with Bush's stance or his conclusion, one cannot argue that his is a serious statement on the moral dimensions of stem cell research: the benefits of medical research using destroyed embryos vs the destruction of human life. It is a serious statement because he directly confronts the moral conflict at the center of the debate. It is a serious statement because he states simply his position--it is a serious statement because he takes a serious stand. Indeed, Bush's entire stem cell speech is a serious statement on the moral debate on stem cell research.

    Dear Leader did not give a serious statement on abortion--he gave a set of throwaway lines, a regurgitation of standard liberal applause lines, and he used them solely to garner applause.

    In his "More Perfect Union" speech during his campaign he threw his grandmother under the bus to construct a long-winded apologetic for his pastor's virulent anti-American racism. At Notre Dame he threw the unborn under the bus for cheap applause.

    Sowell is right.....it is scary when a President is not serious about serious things.

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    Re: Obama wins over notre dame

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    I don't, I don't know anyone who does. When you find some of that "logic" you are talking about. get back to me.
    I'd like WillRockwell to support that assertion: ie: condoms = murder. I call

    Obama pointed out that the "caricatures" of opposing sides does nothing to forward the discussion.


    Little bit of hypocrisy there, no?

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    Re: Obama wins over notre dame

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    I'd like WillRockwell to support that assertion: ie: condoms = murder. I call

    Obama pointed out that the "caricatures" of opposing sides does nothing to forward the discussion.


    Little bit of hypocrisy there, no?



    Oh that's just will. My big question is the next post to hazelnut.
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    Re: Obama wins over notre dame

    Quote Originally Posted by aaronssongs View Post
    Obama Notre Dame Speech: FULL TEXT

    Excerpt from President Obama's speech:



    No wonder he won them over....the man is just the right one for these times.
    What a privilege and a distinct blessing it is, that I am alive to witness it.
    I was cheering the protesters personally.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Obama wins over notre dame

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    A clue would be more useful in this instance.

    Thomas Sowell had an interesting comment in a column he wrote last week on the "torture" debate:

    Dear Leader is not serious about abortion.

    This is his take on the abortion debate in this country:
    What got overlooked is that, in all the applause lines, there is not a serious statement among them. Perversely, even obscenely, he is casual about a decision he acknowledges is not made casually, and even as he acknowledges the moral/spiritual dimensions to that decision, he declines to articulate the how and the why of his moral and spiritual views on the matter. His solution to the debate is to dodge the debate, even as he acknowledges the central issue that drives the debate: abortion as a form of birth control.

    President Bush, when he opted to restrict funding for embryonic stem cell research in 2001 to 60 lines of stem cells created from already-destroyed embryos, had this to say:

    Whether one agrees or disagrees with Bush's stance or his conclusion, one cannot argue that his is a serious statement on the moral dimensions of stem cell research: the benefits of medical research using destroyed embryos vs the destruction of human life. It is a serious statement because he directly confronts the moral conflict at the center of the debate. It is a serious statement because he states simply his position--it is a serious statement because he takes a serious stand. Indeed, Bush's entire stem cell speech is a serious statement on the moral debate on stem cell research.

    Dear Leader did not give a serious statement on abortion--he gave a set of throwaway lines, a regurgitation of standard liberal applause lines, and he used them solely to garner applause.

    In his "More Perfect Union" speech during his campaign he threw his grandmother under the bus to construct a long-winded apologetic for his pastor's virulent anti-American racism. At Notre Dame he threw the unborn under the bus for cheap applause.

    Sowell is right.....it is scary when a President is not serious about serious things.
    CelticLord:

    You are comparing the substance of a few lines of a commencement address with that of entire speech specifically on one issue.

    How do you justify that as a logical and fair comparison?

    The point of a commencement address is to speak to the graduates in a congratulatory manner and encourage them in future endeavors. In his speech he addressed the philosophical divide on the issue that was used to embarrass him by parties outside the university and the Catholic church.

    Bush's speech was following a decision on stem cell research policy. Obviously he is going to specifically address that issue.

    A fair and honest comparison would be to find comments made by Bush a commencement address.

    As an independent, I am open to honest and thoughtful criticism of our President, but when the right makes illogical and unfair criticisms similar to the one you made, they lose credibility IMO.

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    Re: Obama wins over notre dame

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    CelticLord:

    You are comparing the substance of a few lines of a commencement address with that of entire speech specifically on one issue.

    How do you justify that as a logical and fair comparison?
    Actually, I'm comparing the lack of substance on Dear Leader's teleprompter with the substance of President Bush's stem cell speech.

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    The point of a commencement address is to speak to the graduates in a congratulatory manner and encourage them in future endeavors. In his speech he addressed the philosophical divide on the issue that was used to embarrass him by parties outside the university and the Catholic church.
    No, he did not address the "philosphical divide." That's the problem. He raised it, worked it for some cheap applause, then kicked the can down the road. That is not addressing anything.

    Further, if the point of a commencement address is "to speak to the graduates in a congratulatory manner," what in blue blazes is the agitprop on abortion even doing in the speech? If the point of a commencement address is to "encourage them in future endeavors" why is he dragging in shapeless and baseless political rhetoric? He could have just as easily dismissed the agitators without even mentioning abortion.

    Going by your assessment, Dear Leader worked the abortion lines for applause as a tit-for-tat bit of one-upsmanship on the protesters, when he should have been focused on the graduates that were his audience. So we can add the Notre Dame graduates to the list of people thrown under the bus for the sake of Dear Leader's addiction to applause.

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Bush's speech was following a decision on stem cell research policy. Obviously he is going to specifically address that issue.
    And Dear Leader's comments were following a decision to speak at Notre Dame despite vocal opposition based in part on his stance on abortion. Obviously, he should have addressed that issue--but he didn't. Or he should not have mentioned the issue at all--but he didn't do that either.

    Dear Leader confounded Yogi Berra: he came to the fork in the road and didn't take it.

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    A fair and honest comparison would be to find comments made by Bush a commencement address.
    The fair and honest comparison was what was given.

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    As an independent, I am open to honest and thoughtful criticism of our President, but when the right makes illogical and unfair criticisms similar to the one you made, they lose credibility IMO.
    Ok, I don't have credibility with you. Wow. Shocking. Devastating, even.

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    Re: Obama wins over notre dame

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Question:


    If Abortion is not killin a human life. Why then, would you care if there was more or less abortions being performed?



    Any response Hazelnut, anyone?
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    Re: Obama wins over notre dame

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Any response Hazelnut, anyone?
    I think their probable response is that if one can avoid any medical treatment where complications can occur, one should. However, I think that it is actually understood that the REAL reason is that they know damn well that abortion kills a human being, and despite the denial that it commonly causes severe emotional issues.

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    Re: Obama wins over notre dame

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    There are people who believe the use of condoms constitutes murder. Like you, they won't be persuaded by logic.
    Really?!!! I would LOVE to see some substantiation on this. And please, no idiotic fringe groups. No one gives them any validity anyway.
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    Re: Obama wins over notre dame

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Yeah, it's a great speech. He never fails to deliver on that front.
    It was a 'great speech' in that it very nicely said 'yes, I understand that Catholics are opposed to abortion -- but I don't care, so get over it' -- all under the guise of the need to 'bring people together'.

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