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Thread: Obama to revive Gitmo tribunals

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    Obama to revive Gitmo tribunals

    With some changes...

    Obama revives Guantanamo Bay tribunals

    Quote Originally Posted by Article
    For now, the military trials will remain on hold, as they have been since the beginning of his administration, while Obama makes the necessary legal changes. The revised system is expected to try fewer than 20 of the 241 detainees now being held at Guantanamo.

    The changes include:

    * Restrictions on hearsay evidence that can be used in court against the detainees.
    * A ban on all evidence obtained through cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment. This would include statements given by detainees who were subjected to waterboarding, a form of simulated drowning.
    * Giving detainees greater leeway in choosing their own military counsel.
    * Protecting detainees who refuse to testify from legal sanctions or other court prejudices.


    The restrictions on evidence almost certainly will result in only a fraction of detainees going to trial. The rest of the detainees would either be released, transferred to other nations or tried by civilian prosecutors in U.S. federal courts, an official said.
    I like how the wording doesn't address whether or not waterboarding was torture, but it bypasses the controversy entirely by simply omitting the evidence. If there was probable cause to detain them in the first place, then that should be provable anyway.

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    Re: Obama to revive Gitmo tribunals

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    With some changes...

    Obama revives Guantanamo Bay tribunals



    I like how the wording doesn't address whether or not waterboarding was torture, but it bypasses the controversy entirely by simply omitting the evidence. If there was probable cause to detain them in the first place, then that should be provable anyway.
    Why would you reference probable cause, as if it were applicable to enemy combatants?

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    Re: Obama to revive Gitmo tribunals

    The ones going on trial have enough evidence. A good number of them are bigwigs.
    These are not oh we caught this guy in 2009 and don't know much about him past rank in the enemy structure.

    Though their may be 1 or 2 who the trial is simply to absolve for release.


    Obama has no place to put anyone. He has no plan. He has no money.
    He signed a fool document to placate the extreme base of the Democrat party before he had a clue about a catchy line not necessarily being sound policy.

    Interesting that the delays caused by the left in opposing Bush trying to put these people on trial may now be causing their mascot to hastily conduct trials to fulfill a campaign promise to close a secure un-escaped from prison for the worst the enemy has to offer.
    "Hurry we need to hang them before the place is closed."
    ..and they called it justice.


    Closing Gitmo is dumb and most know it. IE-
    Just 36% now agree with the president’s decision to close the prison camp for suspected terrorists at the Guantanamo Naval Base in Cuba. Forty-six percent (46%) oppose closing the prison camp, and 18% are undecided.

    This marks an eight-point drop in support for Obama’s decision since he announced it in late January when voters were almost evenly divided on the issue. Last November, only 32% thought the prison should be closed.
    Rasmussen Reports: The Most Comprehensive Public Opinion Data Anywhere
    Last edited by Triad; 05-16-09 at 05:23 AM.

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    Re: Obama to revive Gitmo tribunals

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Why would you reference probable cause, as if it were applicable to enemy combatants?
    Some of the detainees were captured in the field of battle but you know just as well as I do that other detainees were captured by the CIA in other locations. The use of the term enemy combattant was stretched to absurd levels by the Bush administration. Obama is going to cut through the controversy and put them on trial based on the immediate evidence leading to their detainment.

    It's a sound diplomatic move and it's also fair to those being detained indefinitely.

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    Re: Obama to revive Gitmo tribunals

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Some of the detainees were captured in the field of battle but you know just as well as I do that other detainees were captured by the CIA in other locations. The use of the term enemy combattant was stretched to absurd levels by the Bush administration. Obama is going to cut through the controversy and put them on trial based on the immediate evidence leading to their detainment.

    It's a sound diplomatic move and it's also fair to those being detained indefinitely.
    Just curious, but how was "the term 'enemy combatant' stretched to absurd levels"?
    There is nothing more dangerous to the liberty of Man than a Government or a Religion seizing upon the strings of an overdeveloped herd instinct amongst the people.

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    Re: Obama to revive Gitmo tribunals

    Quote Originally Posted by Burning Giraffe View Post
    Just curious, but how was "the term 'enemy combatant' stretched to absurd levels"?
    I thought they weren't going to be detained indefinitely. I guess when Obama does it, it's different.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Obama to revive Gitmo tribunals

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I thought they weren't going to be detained indefinitely. I guess when Obama does it, it's different.
    How is resuming the trials holding them indefinately?

    Even Bushco released hundreds of these "enemy combatants" when it was found out they were just goat-herders.

    The fact that there was never even a declared war (except on an adverb) means that this should have been a police action all along. We need to either find them guilty of something or let them go.

    I also find it funny that conservatives are trying to rag on Obama for trying to fix this mess.

    Do you also blame the plumber for having to dig out the toys your kids tried to flush down the toilet?

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    Re: Obama to revive Gitmo tribunals

    No one has said anything about Obama using the Bush method after he said he wouldn't. IMO, Military Tribunals was the only way to put the terrorists on trial.

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    Re: Obama to revive Gitmo tribunals

    The article buys the Obama spin that all this stuff is whole-cloth new, that nothing like it was in effect until His Excellency demanded it. However:

    `Sec. 948r. Compulsory self-incrimination prohibited; treatment of statements obtained by torture and other statements

    `(a) In General- No person shall be required to testify against himself at a proceeding of a military commission under this chapter.

    `(b) Exclusion of Statements Obtained by Torture- A statement obtained by use of torture shall not be admissible in a military commission under this chapter, except against a person accused of torture as evidence that the statement was made.

    `(c) Statements Obtained Before Enactment of Detainee Treatment Act of 2005- A statement obtained before December 30, 2005 (the date of the enactment of the Defense Treatment Act of 2005) in which the degree of coercion is disputed may be admitted only if the military judge finds that--

    `(1) the totality of the circumstances renders the statement reliable and possessing sufficient probative value; and

    `(2) the interests of justice would best be served by admission of the statement into evidence.

    `(d) Statements Obtained After Enactment of Detainee Treatment Act of 2005- A statement obtained on or after December 30, 2005 (the date of the enactment of the Defense Treatment Act of 2005) in which the degree of coercion is disputed may be admitted only if the military judge finds that--

    `(1) the totality of the circumstances renders the statement reliable and possessing sufficient probative value;

    `(2) the interests of justice would best be served by admission of the statement into evidence; and

    `(3) the interrogation methods used to obtain the statement do not amount to cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment prohibited by section 1003 of the Detainee Treatment Act of 2005.
    MCA 2006.

    The Accused shall not be required to testify during trial. A Commission shall draw no adverse inference from an Accused's decision not to testify
    DOD Military Commission Order 1 (March 21, 2002)


    Under the Bush construct, the only restriction to choosing an attorney is that said attorney must pass a security clearance for the purposes of obtaining classified material. Is it a good idea to lift that restriction? Not that it's any way clear what Obama's "greater leeway" entails.

    As for hearsay, the commissions were already quite free to toss out anything unreliable, which is the whole purpose of the rule against hearsay. And contrary to popular belief, there are many, many instances in which hearsay IS admitted in court, in general. (To say nothing of it being a uniquely American restriction, and certainly one not generally applicable to, say, world "war crime" tribunals.)
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Obama to revive Gitmo tribunals

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe1991 View Post
    How is resuming the trials holding them indefinately?

    Even Bushco released hundreds of these "enemy combatants" when it was found out they were just goat-herders.

    The fact that there was never even a declared war (except on an adverb) means that this should have been a police action all along. We need to either find them guilty of something or let them go.

    I also find it funny that conservatives are trying to rag on Obama for trying to fix this mess.

    Do you also blame the plumber for having to dig out the toys your kids tried to flush down the toilet?
    You mean Bush let some go??? From the media coverage you'd think everyone of those bastards was still rotting in hell down there.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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