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Thread: Obama Says U.S. Long-Term Debt Load ‘Unsustainable’

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    Re: Obama Says U.S. Long-Term Debt Load ‘Unsustainable’

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    That's only if you think that 2 trillion is less than 1.8 trillion. Sure it's bad, but you're still wrong that the '09 Obama deficit is more than Bush's combined deficit. And given how Bush added around $5 trillion to the debt, there's no way that Obama's $1.8 trillion is more than that.
    OK, fine. Accepting your numbers at face value, best case scenario -- Obama's first-year deficit is slightly less than all of Bush's deficits combined.

    Woo-hoo!
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    Re: Obama Says U.S. Long-Term Debt Load ‘Unsustainable’

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    OK, fine. Accepting your numbers at face value, best case scenario -- Obama's first-year deficit is slightly less than all of Bush's deficits combined.

    Woo-hoo!
    Incorrect. Obama's current deficit for '09 is less than the publicly held deficits of Bush. That does not account for the other around $3 trillion in gov't held debts and deficits that accumulated under Bush.

    When the data is available publicly and free, it is rather reckless not to check before accepting the word of some website.
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    Re: Obama Says U.S. Long-Term Debt Load ‘Unsustainable’

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Incorrect. Obama's current deficit for '09 is less than the publicly held deficits of Bush. That does not account for the other around $3 trillion in gov't held debts and deficits that accumulated under Bush.

    When the data is available publicly and free, it is rather reckless not to check before accepting the word of some website.
    Yeah. I'm not the one tossing oranges into an apples/apples comparison to bolster my point.

    But I think it's funny that you need to toss in all that extra from Bush's entire 8-year run to make Obama's first-year deficit look "small."
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    Re: Obama Says U.S. Long-Term Debt Load ‘Unsustainable’

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Yeah. I'm not the one tossing oranges into an apples/apples comparison to bolster my point.
    How? We are comparing deficits and debts between presidents. You are factually incorrect. What different factor did I toss in? You claimed that Obama's first year deficit was more than all of Bush's combined deficits. I pointed out that you were wrong on the basis of just publicly held deficits. When we account for total deficits, it gets much worse and you get even wronger.

    But I think it's funny that you need to toss in all that extra from Bush's entire 8-year run to make Obama's first-year deficit look "small."
    Apparently providing actual, relevant and factual data is "funny" to you.

    Did I say Obama's deficit is good? No. But the argument that Obama's 1st year deficit is worse then Bush's combined is just outright wrong on the basis of mathematics.

    If you want to talk about finances, at least get your math straight.
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    Re: Obama Says U.S. Long-Term Debt Load ‘Unsustainable’

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    How? We are comparing deficits and debts between presidents. You are factually incorrect. What different factor did I toss in? You claimed that Obama's first year deficit was more than all of Bush's combined deficits. I pointed out that you were wrong on the basis of just publicly held deficits. When we account for total deficits, it gets much worse and you get even wronger.



    Apparently providing actual, relevant and factual data is "funny" to you.

    Did I say Obama's deficit is good? No. But the argument that Obama's 1st year deficit is worse then Bush's combined is just outright wrong on the basis of mathematics.

    If you want to talk about finances, at least get your math straight.
    Tell you what -- make your comparisons of like/kind deficits between the two. Show the numbers.
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    Re: Obama Says U.S. Long-Term Debt Load ‘Unsustainable’

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Tell you what -- make your comparisons of like/kind deficits between the two. Show the numbers.
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/1058025813-post61.html
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    Re: Obama Says U.S. Long-Term Debt Load ‘Unsustainable’

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Dude.

    This is just a repeat of what you said before. At these links:

    According to the historical PDF, the combined total of Bush's deficits, 2001-2008 --revenues vs. outlays -- is 2.005 tn.

    According to the current PDF, Obama's first-year deficit -- revenues vs. outlays -- is 1.845 tn. (And that's just the first year.)

    That's an apples/apples comparison. Anything throwing in another $3 tn is adding oranges.

    But as I said, if you have to throw all of that in just to make Obama's first year seem "small," think that tells you everything you need to know.
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    Re: Obama Says U.S. Long-Term Debt Load ‘Unsustainable’

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Dude.

    This is just a repeat of what you said before. At these links:

    According to the historical PDF, the combined total of Bush's deficits, 2001-2008 --revenues vs. outlays -- is 2.005 tn.

    According to the current PDF, Obama's first-year deficit -- revenues vs. outlays -- is 1.845 tn. (And that's just the first year.)

    That's an apples/apples comparison. Anything throwing in another $3 tn is adding oranges.
    Actually it's throwing more apples in. If we're talking about deficits as a whole rather than just public, then it's Bush's total debt to Obama's first year deficit as the debt is the aggregation of deficits.

    But as I said, if you have to throw all of that in just to make Obama's first year seem "small," think that tells you everything you need to know.
    That would be your assumption. The data I have on public deficits was easily available. The data on government held deficits isn't that easy to come by. Thus I went for the easy access data. Either way, you're wrong as is the Heritage site you pulled your argument from. Does that make Obama's deficit small? No. But the data does prove that Bush's deficits combined are larger then Obama's deficit which is the opposite of the argument you earlier made.

    Just because I think your argument about numbers is wrong doesn't mean I don't agree with you that the spending is out of control.

    Generally most people here will not correct people they normally agree with even if they know the statement made was wrong. I'm not most people.
    Last edited by obvious Child; 05-15-09 at 09:33 PM.
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    Re: Obama Says U.S. Long-Term Debt Load ‘Unsustainable’

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Actually it's throwing more apples in. If we're talking about deficits as a whole rather than just public, then it's Bush's total debt to Obama's first year deficit as the debt is the aggregation of deficits.
    Apples/apples is comparing revenues to outlays.


    That would be your assumption. The data I have on public deficits was easily available. The data on government held deficits isn't that easy to come by. Thus I went for the easy access data. Either way, you're wrong as is the Heritage site you pulled your argument from. Does that make Obama's deficit small? No. But the data does prove that Bush's deficits combined are larger then Obama's deficit which is the opposite of the argument you earlier made.
    I've never been to the Heritage site or relied on Heritage anything for my arguments. That's YOUR "assumption," and a wrong one.

    In any case, I conceded being slightly off, but in total, it hardly matters much. The difference in degree is staggering and obvious either way.
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    Re: Obama Says U.S. Long-Term Debt Load ‘Unsustainable’

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    OK, fine. Accepting your numbers at face value, best case scenario -- Obama's first-year deficit is slightly less than all of Bush's deficits combined.

    Woo-hoo!
    A lot of the 2009 spending was already committed before Obama even took office. With that said, arguing about which is higher is stupid. The economic circumstances were not the same then as they are now. Obama hasn't really added very much spending that A) Bush hadn't also added, B) Bush wouldn't conceivably added if he had another year in office and continued to deal with the current crisis.

    Now if we get universal health care at some point in the future, then your argument will at least make sense. It'll still be silly to complain about it when you consider the immense cost-savings associated with public health care, but at least Obama will have spent money on something that Bush probably would not have spent money on. But until that happens...your point is moot. Obama hasn't done much that Bush himself hadn't done (or wouldn't have done) toward the end of his term to deal with a crippling recession.
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