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Thread: Ex-Bush Official Set To Testify On Waterboarding

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    Ex-Bush Official Set To Testify On Waterboarding

    Rice adviser wrote memo alleging tactics violated ban on cruel punishment.

    A former Bush administration official is set to testify Wednesday as Senate Democrats hold a hearing into the use of harsh interrogation techniques.

    As a top adviser to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, Philip Zelikow argued against the use of waterboarding and other enhanced techniques.

    In a 2005 memo, he said some of the tactics violated the constitution's ban on cruel and unusual punishment.

    Zelikow recently wrote on Foreign Policy magazine's Web site that the White House tried to collect and destroy every copy of his memo.

    Judiciary Committee Chairman Patrick Leahy told the hearing that the "rule of law in the United States means no one is above the law ... not anyone in this room and not the president of the United States."

    "The American people deserve to know what mistakes were made and what we intend to do about it," he added.

    Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham told Wednesday's hearing that the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, left the country "rattled," and the Bush administration "did some things that aren't going to make us safer in the long run."

    "The fact we embrace the rule of law is a strength not a weakness," Graham said.
    From: Ex-Bush official to testify on waterboarding - Security- msnbc.com
    There's a video interview of Zelikow.

    Just another notch in the belt for Bush and Cheney's corrupt and lying administration.
    Here's some accountibility for ya'll.

    Here we have yet another ex-Bush aide coming clean on what really happened during those 8 years in which torture was shoved down the American people's throats as... uhh... legal.

    Should be interesting how the right wingers try to minimize this guy since I don't think he has a book coming out.
    Last edited by ADK_Forever; 05-13-09 at 11:50 AM.
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    Re: Ex-Bush Official Set To Testify On Waterboarding

    The Constitution only applies to US Citizens, not Terrorist scum... but you don't care about what the Constitution actually says, or means... just what is convenient for you.
    Last edited by Renae; 05-13-09 at 12:14 PM.
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    Re: Ex-Bush Official Set To Testify On Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    The Consitution only applies to US Citizens, not Terrorist scum... but you don't care about what the Cosntitution actually says, or means... just what is convienient for you.
    The Constitutional violations committed by the Bush Administration are horrifying. The Constitution does not simply grant citizens protection it protects all people that are under our jurisdiction. This has been held in both statutory law as well as case law.

    Can you please show us any incident that the US Constitution was inclusive of citizens only?

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    Re: Ex-Bush Official Set To Testify On Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by FreeTh!nk3r View Post
    The Constitutional violations committed by the Bush Administration are horrifying. The Constitution does not simply grant citizens protection it protects all people that are under our jurisdiction. This has been held in both statutory law as well as case law.

    Can you please show us any incident that the US Constitution was inclusive of citizens only?
    Can you show where KSM has any constitutional rights?

    Can you please list, in order, the violations you claim the Bush Administration committed in reference to the Constitution. Please state the violation, and the corresponding section of the Constitution therein. I ask this because everytime someone comes in screaming about Bush violating the constitution... they ALWAYS fail to show where and how. Just a bunch of accusations without backing, or links to prisonplanet or other such non-sense. If you have some real grounds here... well let's see them.

    The Constitution covers... GASP! American Citizens. Not foreigners, and certainly not enemy combatants. That makes all the difference in the world.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Ex-Bush Official Set To Testify On Waterboarding

    The Consitution only applies to US Citizens, not Terrorist scum... but you don't
    care about what the Cosntitution actually says, or means... just what is
    convienient for you.
    Not sure how “convenience” comes into play here. To me, honor and integrity and law abiding are at the top of my list of what is important in this issue. But, we each have different values.

    I can see that not knowing how to spell it isn't the only thing you don't know about our "constitution".
    Thank You Barack Obama for Restoring Honor To The Presidency.
    President Obama will rank as one of our greatest presidents!

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    Re: Ex-Bush Official Set To Testify On Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    Not sure how “convenience” comes into play here. To me, honor and integrity and law abiding are at the top of my list of what is important in this issue. But, we each have different values.

    I can see that not knowing how to spell it isn't the only thing you don't know about our "constitution".
    Oh damn, a TYPO! Damn me, I gave you something to avoid the issue at hand didn't I?

    Could you please show where in the Constitution, that Enemy Combatants whom are NOT US Citizens... are covered by the Constitution?

    You can toss the term "Cruel and Unusual Punishment" out all you want, and that's fine, but you and I both know that's a very subjective term.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Ex-Bush Official Set To Testify On Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Oh damn, a TYPO! Damn me, I gave you something to avoid the issue at hand didn't I?

    Could you please show where in the Constitution, that Enemy Combatants whom are NOT US Citizens... are covered by the Constitution?

    You can toss the term "Cruel and Unusual Punishment" out all you want, and that's fine, but you and I both know that's a very subjective term.
    Here's an idea... why don't YOU show us where they are NOT covered in the Constitution?

    Sweet Jesus... I remember when Conservatives were SUPPORTING traditional American values!!!
    When you can't win an election outside of the south or mountain west, the answer to your problems is NOT "more of the same, but LOUDER!!!"


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    Re: Ex-Bush Official Set To Testify On Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    Rice adviser wrote memo alleging tactics violated ban on cruel punishment.



    From: Ex-Bush official to testify on waterboarding - Security- msnbc.com
    There's a video interview of Zelikow.

    Just another notch in the belt for Bush and Cheney's corrupt and lying administration.
    Here's some accountibility for ya'll.

    Here we have yet another ex-Bush aide coming clean on what really happened during those 8 years in which torture was shoved down the American people's throats as... uhh... legal.

    Should be interesting how the right wingers try to minimize this guy since I don't think he has a book coming out.
    I didn't catch tricky Dick II on Cavuto, but I'm guessing this never came up. Opps...

    Someone put in an order for Penguin-size orange coveralls.

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    Re: Ex-Bush Official Set To Testify On Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    The Consitution only applies to US Citizens, not Terrorist scum... but you don't care about what the Cosntitution actually says, or means... just what is convienient for you.
    Here I agree with you from a legal standpoint. The terrorist who committed the acts of 9/11 were not U.S. citizens. Furthermore, since the War on Terror wasn't against a "recognized" government by the UN but rather just some Mulsim nations, it's hard to use the U.S. Constitution or the Geneva Convention as a rallying cry for the illegality of waterboarding. However, the moral arguement, as well as how using such methods did more to hurt U.S./Islamic relations domestically but more specifically abroad has had far reaching consequences.

    Regardless, this is just a continuation of "fear" the Republican party is trying to shove down the American people's collective throats. Perhaps the U.S. did gain more intel through torture, but I believe we did more to stop the threat of terrorist acts domestically and abroad by following the money trails and doing more to secure our boarders and ports than committing torture ever could. Of course, those are aspects of the security shield that receives little headlines nor discussion.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 05-13-09 at 12:33 PM.

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    Re: Ex-Bush Official Set To Testify On Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by The Jovial One View Post
    Here's an idea... why don't YOU show us where they are NOT covered in the Constitution?
    As terrorists are not criminals but unlawful combatants, the pertinent rights of the Constitution, being properly apprehended as the rights of the accused in a criminal trial, are wholly non-applicable.

    These terrorists have violated no US law, because they are not beholden to US law. As their actions stand outside of US law, they themselves stand outside the protections afforded defendants under the Constitution.

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