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Thread: Ex-Bush Official Set To Testify On Waterboarding

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    Re: Ex-Bush Official Set To Testify On Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by aps View Post
    Your claim was that the constitution did not apply to non-citizens. How does this case not address that point?
    That was a specific question of procedure that was ruled in a split decision on certain rights under certain circumstances from which you are implying a much larger role.

    to take your logic, all people across the global are to be afford by the US Government the rights afforded to US Citizens. Does this mean we can no longer go to war? But instead have to send in the cops to arrest other countries soldiers?


    Seriously, think about what you are trying to say here.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Ex-Bush Official Set To Testify On Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Glinda View Post
    Once again WE are signatories to the GC. Therefore WE are obligated to follow its rules. EVEN IF OTHERS DON'T.



    *sigh*

    WE said WE'D play by the rules.
    We are following the rules, when they apply. In this case, they don't apply, therefore we haven't violated the Geneva Convention. But I expect more emotionalism and faux outrage, so I'll go get some popcorn and return to enjoy the show.

    Welfare (Food Stamps, WIC, etc...) are not entitlements. They are taxpayer funded handouts and shouldn't be called entitlements at all. Social Security and Veteran's benefits are 'Entitlements' because the people receiving them are entitled to them. They were earned and paid for by the recipients.

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    Re: Ex-Bush Official Set To Testify On Waterboarding

    Glinda,

    If the GC says terrorist are not covered, which it does and which they aren't.... why are you trying to say we should still give them such protections accorded?

    Seriously?
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Ex-Bush Official Set To Testify On Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    One more time . . .

    The "rules" by which we play say non-uniformed, non-state combatants are specifically excluded from prisoner of war status protection.
    Nope.

    Should any doubt arise as to whether persons [not "non-uniformed" persons, not "non-state" persons; in fact, no specific designation whatever], having committed a belligerent act and having fallen into the hands of the enemy [i.e., us], belong to any of the categories enumerated in Article 4, such persons shall enjoy the protection of the present Convention until such time as their status has been determined by a competent tribunal. --Geneva Conventions, Part 4, Article 5
    In addition:

    The Supreme Court in Hamdan v. Rumsfeld ... the Supreme Court stated that the Geneva Conventions, most notably the Third Geneva Convention and also article 3 of the Fourth Geneva Convention (requiring humane treatment) applies to all detainees in the War on Terror. --Guantanamo Bay Detention Camp
    Last edited by Glinda; 05-13-09 at 01:34 PM.

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    Re: Ex-Bush Official Set To Testify On Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Glinda View Post
    Nope.
    Yep. If a person does not fall into the following, then POW status may not be granted. And there's a humanitarian reason why only the following get the status.

    Art 4. A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:
    (1) Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict, as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.

    (2) Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:[
    (a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
    (b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;
    (c) that of carrying arms openly;
    (d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

    (3) Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.

    (4) Persons who accompany the armed forces without actually being members thereof, such as civilian members of military aircraft crews, war correspondents, supply contractors, members of labour units or of services responsible for the welfare of the armed forces, provided that they have received authorization, from the armed forces which they accompany, who shall provide them for that purpose with an identity card similar to the annexed model.

    (5) Members of crews, including masters, pilots and apprentices, of the merchant marine and the crews of civil aircraft of the Parties to the conflict, who do not benefit by more favourable treatment under any other provisions of international law.

    (6) Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war.

    B. The following shall likewise be treated as prisoners of war under the present Convention:
    (1) Persons belonging, or having belonged, to the armed forces of the occupied country, if the occupying Power considers it necessary by reason of such allegiance to intern them, even though it has originally liberated them while hostilities were going on outside the territory it occupies, in particular where such persons have made an unsuccessful attempt to rejoin the armed forces to which they belong and which are engaged in combat, or where they fail to comply with a summons made to them with a view to internment.
    The part you quoted has only to do with questions about status applicability.
    Last edited by Harshaw; 05-13-09 at 01:43 PM.
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    Re: Ex-Bush Official Set To Testify On Waterboarding

    You're conveniently ignoring the part about those who cannot be identified as "official" enemies.

    Got any comment on the Supreme Court's ruling?
    Last edited by Glinda; 05-13-09 at 01:45 PM.

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    Re: Ex-Bush Official Set To Testify On Waterboarding

    All of you braying on about the Supreme Court and the GC.. miss something important.

    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCain_Detainee_Amendment]Detainee Treatment Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

    THAT is what is at stake, and THAT is what the rulings are on about.

    But it's obvious you guys are ignoring that in your attempts to back your positions up.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Ex-Bush Official Set To Testify On Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Glinda View Post
    So, the Supreme Court's ruling doesn't count?
    What about it? Applying the GC III, non-uniformed, non-state, non-regular combatants do not fall under POW status.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Ex-Bush Official Set To Testify On Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    What about it? Applying the GC III, non-uniformed, non-state, non-regular combatants do not fall under POW status.
    That's what the Supreme Court ruled? I could have sworn they said otherwise.

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    Re: Ex-Bush Official Set To Testify On Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Glinda View Post
    You're conveniently ignoring the part about those who cannot be identified as "official" enemies.
    I'm not ignoring anything. I'm giving you the GC III. You're simply attempting to morph to a different point.

    Got any comment on the Supreme Court's ruling?
    Already done.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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