White House: Law only answer for gays in military

CrusaderRabbit08 said:

:mrgreen:

I hear a French commando unit surrendered immediately when they saw this thing rolling their way

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:rofl ....and here I thought I was being outrageous and poking fun; its already a REALITY! :rofl

Councilman said:

WASHINGTON (AP) - The White House says it won't stop gays and lesbians from being dismissed from the military while the Obama administration works to repeal a decade-old policy banning openly gay people from serving in uniform.

White House: Law only answer for gays in military

When Obama is done it could give a whole new meaning to the term sharing a fox hole. Don't you think private Fox?

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Lol
My stance on Gays in Military is pretty simple.

Let them fight because i am not going to volunteer my ass for the Army any time soon.

I find a lot of the arguments against gay openness in the military are the same arguments used back in the day when gays had no rights in general. Opposers seem to operate under the persistent delusion that somehow gays being open will radically alter the military and cause its function to degrade. Gays are just every day people... it's not like this one aspect of who they are is going to commandeer their abilities as an officer.

Speaking of ability... if anyone can serve their country by passing basic training and all the military requirements, then who really cares. I would personally never want to be out in the military because it's such a macho environment, but if another gay person makes good friends while serving and wants them to know who they are, I see no problem with it.

People need to stop catastrophizing ever little social issue. The military is not going to crumble, and if somehow it does, then it was made up of sissies in the first place.

Many other countries have decided not to do stupid things like kicking gays out of the military, and have not face any decrease in military effectiveness. Its simply a smokescreen for those who dislike gays enough that they don't want them to be able to serve their country. The Spartans proved beyond any doubt that homosexuality has nothing to do with being a solider.

CrusaderRabbit08 said:

That's because the military is full of bigots. The military is the problem, not the gays wishing to serve openly.

The only way things will change is to force it on them; and the sooner the better.

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So even if it screws with unit cohesion and lowers morale in units and it ends up getting people killed we shoud force it on them. You have never spent time in a combat arms unit have you. The army is about winning wars not being socialy fair and anything that distracts from that goal is wrong.

braindrain said:

So even if it screws with unit cohesion and lowers morale in units and it ends up getting people killed we shoud force it on them. You have never spent time in a combat arms unit have you. The army is about winning wars not being socialy fair and anything that distracts from that goal is wrong.

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Spare me that lame argument. The same was said about integrating blacks into white units. The military got over it then and it'll get over it now.

braindrain said:

So even if it screws with unit cohesion and lowers morale in units and it ends up getting people killed we shoud force it on them. You have never spent time in a combat arms unit have you. The army is about winning wars not being socialy fair and anything that distracts from that goal is wrong.

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There is no evidence that allowing gays to serve openly would do any of the things you list. Hell, I served in the military from 87 to 93, and there where a couple guys who where pretty openly gay...and no one really cared.

So pretty much under a corollary “zero tolerance” policy, any military man or woman who expresses disagreement or legitimate concerns about professed gays in the military, for any reason, will be assumed “intolerant” or in many of you folks' opinion "homophobic" and in violation of any new law that Obama may pass. This mandate would be particularly divisive among men and women whose moral convictions are thrown into direct conflict with the new military law—starting with the chaplains.

Disciplinary penalties and denials of promotion would end the career of anyone who dissents. As a result, thousands of valuable troops (dont even start to put words into my mouth, but there are more straight soldiers than there would be gay) may feel compelled to avoid or leave military service.

-something like this shouldnt be taken lightly and passed only after all the angles have been seen and addressed....theres too many what if's.

Benzin388 said:

So pretty much under a corollary “zero tolerance” policy, any military man or woman who expresses disagreement or legitimate concerns about professed gays in the military, for any reason, will be assumed “intolerant” or in many of you folks' opinion "homophobic" and in violation of any new law that Obama may pass. This mandate would be particularly divisive among men and women whose moral convictions are thrown into direct conflict with the new military law—starting with the chaplains.

Disciplinary penalties and denials of promotion would end the career of anyone who dissents. As a result, thousands of valuable troops (dont even start to put words into my mouth, but there are more straight soldiers than there would be gay) may feel compelled to avoid or leave military service.

-something like this shouldnt be taken lightly and passed only after all the angles have been seen and addressed....theres too many what if's.

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They'll just have to get over their moral issues, won't they? People had moral issues with blacks being integrated with whites in the military. We went forward with that anyway.

BTW, bigots are NOT valuable troops.

Benzin388 said:

So pretty much under a corollary “zero tolerance” policy, any military man or woman who expresses disagreement or legitimate concerns about professed gays in the military, for any reason, will be assumed “intolerant” or in many of you folks' opinion "homophobic" and in violation of any new law that Obama may pass. This mandate would be particularly divisive among men and women whose moral convictions are thrown into direct conflict with the new military law—starting with the chaplains.

Disciplinary penalties and denials of promotion would end the career of anyone who dissents. As a result, thousands of valuable troops (dont even start to put words into my mouth, but there are more straight soldiers than there would be gay) may feel compelled to avoid or leave military service.

-something like this shouldnt be taken lightly and passed only after all the angles have been seen and addressed....theres too many what if's.

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As long as they do not create a hostile work environment, they are free to offer any opinions they want to. I remember so fascinating discussions on race when I was in the service, between black guys and all out racists, that ended with laughter and a slow erosion of racial tensions.

All the Western developed nations allow gays in the military, except the U.S. There is no evidence to suggest that homosexuality degrades unit cohesion. That has been a tired argument of the social right since the days when women wanted into the military, and blacks wanted to be included in the regular units.

This social barrier will be overcome just like all the rest. For most people it's a non-issue, it's just the social right that shouts the loudest about it. The military will inevitably allow gays in and the people uncomfortable about it will just have to deal with it. I also suspect that, in time, they will see that their panic was over nothing.

Orius said:

All the Western developed nations allow gays in the military, except the U.S. There is no evidence to suggest that homosexuality degrades unit cohesion. That has been a tired argument of the social right since the days when women wanted into the military, and blacks wanted to be included in the regular units.

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It's working just fine for the Brits

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTQrCjP14tA"]YouTube - Monty Python s Military Fairy[/ame]