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Thread: Ventura: Powell's a 'war hero,' while Cheney 'ran and hid'

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    Re: Ventura: Powell's a 'war hero,' while Cheney 'ran and hid'

    Quote Originally Posted by Dayton3 View Post
    Colin Powell joined the military to pay for college by his own admission.
    Why someone joins and why they stay are not always the same thing.

    Who cares WHY he joined, he served, honorably.

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    Re: Ventura: Powell's a 'war hero,' while Cheney 'ran and hid'

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Why someone joins and why they stay are not always the same thing.

    Who cares WHY he joined, he served, honorably.
    Of course.

    But that doesn't make him a hero. A hero goes above and beyond their sworn duty.

    No one here has given any particular example of Colin Powell during his 35 years in the Army doing anything other than what would be expected of any soldier who took the oath to serve.

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    Re: Ventura: Powell's a 'war hero,' while Cheney 'ran and hid'

    Quote Originally Posted by Dayton3 View Post
    Of course.

    But that doesn't make him a hero. A hero goes above and beyond their sworn duty.

    No one here has given any particular example of Colin Powell during his 35 years in the Army doing anything other than what would be expected of any soldier who took the oath to serve.
    Honestly I think anyone that signs up for Military service is a hero.

    Joining up in the military goes above and beyond being a citizen to me so that counts as being a hero. All about perspective I guess.

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    Re: Ventura: Powell's a 'war hero,' while Cheney 'ran and hid'

    Quote Originally Posted by aaronssongs View Post
    Kinda sad to see right wing media so impotent. They all come across as cartoons. Christopher Hitchens seems to be one of the few conservative intellectuals left. Even Andrew Sullivan "leans left-ish".
    I have a problem with this statement. Hitchens is considered a huge liberal in majority of conservative circles. He was a former Trotskyist during most of the Cold War but turned "right" during the Clinton years. Yes, Hitchens is a huge defender of free speech but its one of the few things that is conservative about him. He is a huge critic of religion and that never flies well in conservative circles as well. He is considered a neoconservative by other standards mainly because of his foreign policy views.

    In Sullivan's case, if anyone considered him a conservative that pretty much went out the door when he endorsed Obama. Granted Sullivan has decent economic views but since he has no congressional record people go by what he writes and who he supports in the Washington arena. Sullivan like Buckley's son shouldve endorsed Barr in the election to maintain their credibility.
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    Re: Ventura: Powell's a 'war hero,' while Cheney 'ran and hid'

    Quote Originally Posted by chevydriver1123 View Post
    I have a problem with this statement. Hitchens is considered a huge liberal in majority of conservative circles. He was a former Trotskyist during most of the Cold War but turned "right" during the Clinton years. Yes, Hitchens is a huge defender of free speech but its one of the few things that is conservative about him. He is a huge critic of religion and that never flies well in conservative circles as well. He is considered a neoconservative by other standards mainly because of his foreign policy views.

    In Sullivan's case, if anyone considered him a conservative that pretty much went out the door when he endorsed Obama. Granted Sullivan has decent economic views but since he has no congressional record people go by what he writes and who he supports in the Washington arena. Sullivan like Buckley's son shouldve endorsed Barr in the election to maintain their credibility.
    Barr? You've got to be kidding? Like he was a true Libertarian. This after being one of the most conservative and racist Republicans in Georgian history. And I'm suspicious of his pedigree, what with his coarse hair, which, obviously has been "straightened". Please.

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    Re: Ventura: Powell's a 'war hero,' while Cheney 'ran and hid'

    The sad thing is that if Powell would have run as a republican you would not see any republicans disagree with calling him a hero. While I agree with alot of what the republicans say I disagree with almost everything that they vote for which is why I dont for to many republicans any more. I think the time has come that Americans need to stop voting for a party and vote for some one who votes the same way they belive. Partisan politics does nothing but keep the corrupt politicans in office. They use it as a tool to maintain power with out having to do anything

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    Re: Ventura: Powell's a 'war hero,' while Cheney 'ran and hid'

    Powells downfall came when he began criticizing the Bush administration over Iraq. And it went downhill from there. While I don't think any sane member of the GOP would attacks Powell's military service, like WI said...they go for the throat on his politics.

    But I'll just tell you this. I have studied Colin Powell's "military politics" in some detail. I will just say this, his endorsement of the decision to invade Iraq was shocking given his military philosophy and the operational environment he lorded over as the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. It got even more bizarre when he gave the statements he did regarding the evidence. Some people have been outrageously dishonest in portraying Powell as a race driven turncoat. But if you really study him what you will find is that his decision to criticize Bush after leaving service is really not all that surprising.

    Colin Powell was a stalwart and loyal soldier who loved his nation dearly and respected the Chain of Command. While I reserve my opinion on him being a "hero" (I have a different standard for that than some do, I'm not saying others are wrong in classifying him that way, and I'm not taking away from his service, but I have a very high standard for applying the term "hero"), he was a good troop, but loyal to a fault. My only criticism of Powell is this. In his role as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, he the capacity and the obligation to stand in the breach for the military when Cheney and Rumsfeld were butchering the Pentagons plans for the invasion of Iraq. By failing to dissent, which he should have done, he compromised his legacy in that he will always be criticized for that complicitness. Taking the politics out of the justification or lack thereof, the plan for the invasion and the post war occupation was so bad that it was nearly impossible to find an active duty general who would endorse it. Powell stood up, out of loyalty, out of whatever, and took that round for the administration.

    Whether he did it out of political loyalty or military loyalty is irrelevant. Powell was soldiering the best he knew how I suppose. It was an unenviable task but he performed it with true class. I respect him for his years of service and I am glad he is voicing his criticisms because I know they are not born out of racial loyalty at all. They are just out of step with him personally as far as timing goes. I think he is a very sincere man.

    And Dick Cheney is a fool to try and discredit him in any way. The GOP needs to shut Cheney up however they can.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Ventura: Powell's a 'war hero,' while Cheney 'ran and hid'

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    And Dick Cheney is a fool to try and discredit him in any way. The GOP needs to shut Cheney up however they can.
    I think the U.S. Marshals will be doing that for him soon enough. He wanted the rest of the torture doc released, and he's about to get his wish.

    On Sunday, when Cheney was asked if if President Bush himself had signed off on the interrogation program. His response was chilling:

    (after a weird pause as he tried to remember what his lawyers told him to say)"I certainly have every reason to believe that he knew a great deal about the program. He basically authorized it. I mean, this was a presidential level decision. And the decision went to the president. He signed off on it."

    He basically authorized it?? Cheney was the calling the shots during that whole period. Bush was out of the loop. It's so disturbing.

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    Re: Ventura: Powell's a 'war hero,' while Cheney 'ran and hid'

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    I don't know much about Powell's politics, but I'd probably vote for him over Cheney, Limbaugh, or Ventura based on character.

    But in the end, it doesn't matter really. Left and right are willing to besmirch and attack a veterans record, if they think they can distort it foir advantage. Now I don't think Cheney attacked Powell's service, but rather his politics in this instance. But we saw people attack Kerry for his service, and recently attack McCain for his service. Coincedintally, the exact same "group" unleashed the lies about McCain and Kerry, and the oppossing sides ate it up as fact, both times, while the supportive sides scrambled to defend the service of their candidate.

    I know I have a little bias here, but unless we are talking about somebody who got dishonorably discharged from service, I don't think we should give credence to propoganda spread about a servicemans time in the military. If the military deems them good enough to bestow upon them the rank, privileges, and awards they received, that should be evidence enough of the service they provided their country.
    Cheney jabs Powell on party loyalty - Jonathan Martin - POLITICO.com

    I don't see where Cheney criticized Powell's military record.
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    Re: Ventura: Powell's a 'war hero,' while Cheney 'ran and hid'

    Quote Originally Posted by Dayton3 View Post
    Of course.

    But that doesn't make him a hero. A hero goes above and beyond their sworn duty.

    No one here has given any particular example of Colin Powell during his 35 years in the Army doing anything other than what would be expected of any soldier who took the oath to serve.
    A "hero" is made in a moment on the battlefield, Powell's career spans generations of notable service. You don't need to be a hero to be a leader, ask Eisenhower, US Grant, Washington or MacArthur

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