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Thread: Chavez seizes oil service firms

  1. #51
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    Re: Chavez seizes oil service firms

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Hey, it's none of our damn business anymore.
    It never was.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Chavez seizes oil service firms

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    That's simply not true.
    Which part of Venezuelan political reality does Chavez's party not hold control of?
    Parliament?
    Police?
    Courts?
    Military?
    Executive?
    Which one?
    ...the answer is none. He controls all of them.



    I don't think it's that far out that this man was actually guilty of the charges of corruption leveled against him. To put it into context, there have been supporters of Chavez that have been charged with corruption as well. Corruption is a bipartisan affair in Venezuela, as is prosecution for it.
    Chavez has been trying to run him out of the nation now for 6+ years. Chavez is now in a position to use those courts as he see's fit.


    The television station that was inciting a revolt against a democratically elected government was simply denied a network license. They are actually still operating on I believe cable, which many Venezuelans have.
    Who said they where inciting a revolt again?..Chavez. They are also not the only media that has been silenced or intimidated.

    ..and now he is going after another one.

    Chavez threatens to close TV channel critical of him
    Monday, May 11, 2009
    By TYLER BRIDGES

    CARACAS, Venezuela President Hugo Chavez is threatening again to shut down Globovision, the sole television channel in Venezuela that regularly criticizes him - saying it had stirred panic for reporting an earthquake before the government announced it.

    "We're not going to tolerate a crazy man with a cannon shooting it at the whole world," Chavez said on his weekly television and radio show Sunday, referring to Alberto Ravell, the Globovision general manager. "Enough! . . . This has to end or I'll stop calling myself Hugo Rafael Chavez Frias."

    "You are playing with fire, manipulating, inciting hate and much more. All of you: television networks, radio stations, papers," he said. "Don't make a mistake with me."

    Foreign Minister Nicolas Maduro followed up Monday by charging that Ravell had terrorized Venezuelan women and children with his 5:21 a.m. report.

    "Globovision and Alberto Federico Ravell incited panic and anxiety within the population," Maduro said. "We will not permit that."

    The Globovision all-news station on May 4 scooped the government on the mild pre-dawn earthquake, registering 5.5 on the Richter scale, citing the United States Geological Survey Web page as its source.

    Chavez and other government officials also seem upset that Ravell, reporting the details on the earthquake via telephone, chided the government for not providing any news.

    "Unfortunately, we haven't been able to find any authority who can give us precise and exact information," said Ravell, while reporting the country was calm and the earthquake had caused no major damage.

    The attacks against Globovision come at a time when Chavez and senior aides are sidelining opposition leaders with corruption charges. Meanwhile, the Chavez-controlled Congress has taken away the budget of Caracas' newly elected mayor and is moving to impose a Chavez-appointed "vice president" over the country's governors.
    Chavez threatens to close TV channel critical of him - National News | Tri-City Herald : Mid-Columbia news

    His regime is actively and currently involved in undermining any power left that even thinks of opposing Chavez.

    Chavez has harnessed the power he needed to do what he wished...now he is cleaning up what opposition remained and seizing control of any asset/powerbase he doesn't already control in full.

    More details as to what you are specifically referring to, please.
    Free Article for Non-Members | STRATFOR

    Chavez's Personal Militia May Have a Dual Mission - Los Angeles Times

    VHeadline.com - VenEconomy: The difficulties of demonstrating "peacefully" in Venezuela





    I don't exactly think that you can claim that "he" has taken control of it, as a lot of the nationalizations are dependent upon work on the grassroots level by workers, who have a very significant influence in Venezuelan politics nowadays. It is not simply "Chavez vs. freedom" as you would like to portray it; the situation is much more complex and broad based than that.
    He has on every level removed anyone he even suspects of being a problem. The "grassroots" in Venezuela is the Military?



    See, HG? I told you someone would say the D word!
    Because he is.


    Chavez was never exactly far right; he was more of a Blanqui'ist.




    Hugo Chavez is a textbook case of Dictator who used Democracy to destroy Democracy.
    Last edited by Triad; 05-12-09 at 02:26 AM.

  3. #53
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    Re: Chavez seizes oil service firms

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    PDVSA engaged in significantly more authoritarian and damaging actions before they were placed into public control.

    EDIT: I'll have more to say to this thread later.
    Hey for what its worth, the last time we had that extended debate I learned a lot from both you and Khayembii.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Chavez seizes oil service firms

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    It depends on what kind of private property this is. Murray Rothbard suggested declaring a lot of property unowned because it "owners" were so dependent on the state. When these corporations abide by the common law idea of private property and get no state support then I'd care a lot more. It seems like switching one kind of centralised, socialism for another.
    I can agree with that. It makes sense.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Chavez seizes oil service firms

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Hey for what its worth, the last time we had that extended debate I learned a lot from both you and Khayembii.
    Me too actually. I realise I was wrong about some of my views on Chavez specifically the idea he was almost a dictator. I've always been only luke-warmly hostile to Chvez because I realised it was just state-capitalism Vs. state-socialism but I have learnt that he, though he does still look somewhat dubious to me, is not even very close to a centralised, state socialist dictator.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Chavez seizes oil service firms

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Me too actually. I realise I was wrong about some of my views on Chavez specifically the idea he was almost a dictator. I've always been only luke-warmly hostile to Chvez because I realised it was just state-capitalism Vs. state-socialism but I have learnt that he, though he does still look somewhat dubious to me, is not even very close to a centralised, state socialist dictator.
    I don't like what appears, to me at least, to be a power grab.

    That always bothers me whether it is Chavez, Gordon Brown or whoever.
    No state needs that much power in my mind.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Chavez seizes oil service firms

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I don't like what appears, to me at least, to be a power grab.

    That always bothers me whether it is Chavez, Gordon Brown or whoever.
    No state needs that much power in my mind.
    Yes but I'm not sure but apparently a lot of it is grass-roots which is rather different. Personally I'd take libertarian socialism over state-capitalism.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Chavez seizes oil service firms

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Yes but I'm not sure but apparently a lot of it is grass-roots which is rather different. Personally I'd take libertarian socialism over state-capitalism.
    Please don't make me choose. I don't want any of it.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Chavez seizes oil service firms

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Please don't make me choose. I don't want any of it.
    To be honest I find a lot of libertarian socialism and libertarian socialists very interesting and although I don't think I;d support such a system their ideas are well within the sort of larger zone of ideologies close to mine along with things like paleoconservatis, American style libertarianism and such.

    In the likes of Peter Kropotkin and Proudhon you will find examplary insightfulness when it comes to society and freedom, imho.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 05-12-09 at 05:07 AM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Chavez seizes oil service firms

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    To be honest I find a lot of libertarian socialism and libertarian socialists very interesting and although I don't think I;d support such a system their ideas are well within the sort of larger zone of ideologies close to mine along with things like paleoconservatis, American style libertarianism and such.
    Generally I think they are very intelligent and well read people.

    I'm not so sure Agna likes me to much, but I get a long with Khayembii pretty well.
    I understand why they want their style of government and I think its very noble of them, I just don't think it will deliver like it says on paper.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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