Page 2 of 12 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 116

Thread: Chavez seizes oil service firms

  1. #11
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: Chavez seizes oil service firms

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    This could be a promising move; it will be interesting to see how this is handled by PSUV, and whether this will take on a form of management in terms of central state ownership or more direct rule.
    I was fishing for Khayembii with this thread.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  2. #12
    Sage
    Khayembii Communique's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:58 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,898

    Re: Chavez seizes oil service firms

    I knew you would be. Anyways, I haven't had any time to look into this as of late (in fact, I have been much too busy with other matters lately to even follow Venezuelan politics, unfortunately), but I'll probably be able to respond later this week after I get some time freed up.

    Until then, cue the canned "Chavez = dictator" posts.
    Last edited by Khayembii Communique; 05-11-09 at 04:19 PM.

  3. #13
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: Chavez seizes oil service firms

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    I knew you would be. Anyways, I haven't had any time to look into this as of late, but I'll probably be able to respond later this week after I get some time freed up.

    Until then, cue the canned "Chavez = dictator" posts.
    I'm just having fun with you.

    I dropped dictator for authoritarian. I think its more accurate.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  4. #14
    activist professor Inferno's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Tipping Velvet
    Last Seen
    07-01-09 @ 02:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    2,017

    Re: Chavez seizes oil service firms

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I agree that the people want him and that we shouldn't interfere.

    I always question the motives of people in leadership positions especially those that others wish to import to the U.S.

    Something to remember though is that these large corporate structures mostly exist because the government interferes to keep them alive.
    Oh I do agree that the governments hold up the Corps. They bail them out and give tax benefits. This is the way that the leadership continues to beat on the little guy and give to the owner class. The worker at the low end is seen as less and gets less.

    When the average worker needs a hand I hear so many say well we don't want to do that. It is never fair.
    Democracy is the road to socialism. Karl Marx
    Life member NY city Fisting Club!
    I am Zoochie Purple Quivering Ghost Bear a Tiki Bar Tarte, you want some of my Panties.

  5. #15
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Last Seen
    09-22-10 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    11,430

    Re: Chavez seizes oil service firms

    Quote Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
    Chavez was elected. The people are behind him. This is what the people want. Why should we even care?
    Those people are tired of the worker being slaves to large corp structures. They are tired of The US interfering with their lives as well.

    Chavez is the man the people want. Just who do Americans think they are to judge him by our failing standards?
    Maybe your standards are failing, but the Americans' stantards are not. Then again, not one American voted for Obama, so maybe you're just not sure of who we are anymore.

    The Germans loved Hitler, all the way until he started WWII. Even after that it took them a while to figure out the problem.

    Why should peasants in Venezueala be different from educated Germans?

  6. #16
    activist professor Inferno's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Tipping Velvet
    Last Seen
    07-01-09 @ 02:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    2,017

    Re: Chavez seizes oil service firms

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    This could be a promising move; it will be interesting to see how this is handled by PSUV, and whether this will take on a form of management in terms of central state ownership or more direct rule.
    I see this as a great move. If the people get a fair shake that will be what is telling. How much will the workers benefit by this move?
    Democracy is the road to socialism. Karl Marx
    Life member NY city Fisting Club!
    I am Zoochie Purple Quivering Ghost Bear a Tiki Bar Tarte, you want some of my Panties.

  7. #17
    activist professor Inferno's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Tipping Velvet
    Last Seen
    07-01-09 @ 02:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    2,017

    Re: Chavez seizes oil service firms

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Maybe your standards are failing, but the Americans' stantards are not. Then again, not one American voted for Obama, so maybe you're just not sure of who we are anymore.

    The Germans loved Hitler, all the way until he started WWII. Even after that it took them a while to figure out the problem.

    Why should peasants in Venezueala be different from educated Germans?
    We didn't torture now under Bush it became the thing to do. The right has given up on anyone that is an American citizen. They would rather put all the money into foreign lands. They have tea parties to tell government that we don't want any spending here. We love corps that outsource American jobs. Yes Our standards are falling.

    Obama was elected by a lot of Americans. Those that did not vote for him may well be questionable.
    Democracy is the road to socialism. Karl Marx
    Life member NY city Fisting Club!
    I am Zoochie Purple Quivering Ghost Bear a Tiki Bar Tarte, you want some of my Panties.

  8. #18
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Last Seen
    09-22-10 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    11,430

    Re: Chavez seizes oil service firms

    Quote Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
    We didn't torture now under Bush it became the thing to do.
    Waterboarding isn't torture.

    Quote Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
    Obama was elected by a lot of Americans. Those that did not vote for him may well be questionable.
    Not one single American voted for Obama. A lot of US citizens did.

    There's a difference.

    American's aren't socialists.


    The people that voted for Obama may think they're American, but since they don't recognize the American values of self-reliance, freedom, and justice, they're not Americans.
    Last edited by Scarecrow Akhbar; 05-11-09 at 04:45 PM.

  9. #19
    Sage
    Khayembii Communique's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:58 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,898

    Re: Chavez seizes oil service firms

    I dropped dictator for authoritarian. I think its more accurate.
    It is, indeed. However, I'm still not a huge fan of the word used in the negative context, simply because of the emotional connotations it brings along with it.

    I am proudly authoritarian, for example.

    I see this as a great move. If the people get a fair shake that will be what is telling. How much will the workers benefit by this move?
    Well that's the thing. It could be a great move in some ways, but in others it could be detrimental. I am not only concerned with the economic victories of the workers, but political victories as well, specifically political rule. In terms of economic victories this could lead to better pay and/or benefits for the workers in those firms, but it could also lead to a tighter crackdown on management when the state assumes control. I have seen both happen in various state-owned Venezuelan industries, and so "state ownership" is not inherently good.

    In terms of political rule this could go either way. For years Chavez and his supporters have been playing a very precarious balancing game, whereby they must satisfy both the demands of the Venezuelan working classes as well as both the small and large bourgeoisie. This crisis I have a feeling, once it picks up again, is going to have a huge effect on that balance, and could cause the balance of power to tip in either direction. For a while I've been concerned that Chavez was going to shift towards the side of capital, but lately (at least, until I stopped following Venezuelan politics) he has been shifting slightly towards the working classes. At this point it's really difficult to tell which way he will probably go.

    EDIT: I just reread this last part of this post and it sounds incredibly stupid. The shifting of power is not simply due to the whims of Chavez but much broader forces and much broader movements in an incredibly broad and complex struggle.
    Last edited by Khayembii Communique; 05-11-09 at 04:54 PM.

  10. #20
    Student The Jovial One's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Maryland
    Last Seen
    07-20-09 @ 11:31 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    160

    Re: Chavez seizes oil service firms

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Maybe your standards are failing, but the Americans' stantards are not. Then again, not one American voted for Obama, so maybe you're just not sure of who we are anymore.

    The Germans loved Hitler, all the way until he started WWII. Even after that it took them a while to figure out the problem.

    Why should peasants in Venezueala be different from educated Germans?
    Not one American voted for Obama?
    When you can't win an election outside of the south or mountain west, the answer to your problems is NOT "more of the same, but LOUDER!!!"


Page 2 of 12 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •