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Thread: Obama Eliminates Abstinence-Only Funding In Budget

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    Re: Obama Eliminates Abstinence-Only Funding In Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    Statistics seem to show that the more schools tell children how not to get pregnant, the more teen pregnancies there are.
    You got data on this?

    States with the highest amounts of abstinence only funding tend to have higher STD and pregnancy rates then states with comprehensive sex ed.

    States ranked by rates of pregnancy among women age 15-19 (pregnancies per thousand):

    1. Nevada (113) $851,532
    2. Arizona (104) $5,185,998
    3. Mississippi (103) $5,742,594
    4. New Mexico (103) $5,433,732
    5. Texas (101) $14,289,087
    6. Florida (97) $13,101,054
    7. California (96) $6,367,902
    8. Georgia (95) $12,282,363
    9. North Carolina (95) $2,348,973
    10. Arkansas (93) $4,030,124

    SIECUS - Funding by State Fiscal Year 2008
    Top 10 States With Highest Teenage Pregnancy and Birth Rates
    50-State and National Comparisons | The National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy -

    Wyoming got none and had teen pregnancy rate of 77.
    North Dakota got a measly $88k and had a low of 42.
    New Hampshire got a measly 92K and had 42

    States with have the most money of the program tend to have the highest birth rates per thousand of teenagers. Pennsylvania is one of the few exceptions.
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    Re: Obama Eliminates Abstinence-Only Funding In Budget

    And that state received one of the higher amounts of abstinence only funding.

    Georgia, Florida and Texas, the three states receiving the most money are in the top ten for teen pregnancy.

    Maine, Wyoming, and Vermont, which received nothing or very little have the lowest.

    Huh.

    Based on the data, it is not rational, reasonable or intelligent to back these programs when they do not work.
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    Re: Obama Eliminates Abstinence-Only Funding In Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    You got data on this?

    States with the highest amounts of abstinence only funding tend to have higher STD and pregnancy rates then states with comprehensive sex ed.

    States ranked by rates of pregnancy among women age 15-19 (pregnancies per thousand):

    1. Nevada (113) $851,532
    2. Arizona (104) $5,185,998
    3. Mississippi (103) $5,742,594
    4. New Mexico (103) $5,433,732
    5. Texas (101) $14,289,087
    6. Florida (97) $13,101,054
    7. California (96) $6,367,902
    8. Georgia (95) $12,282,363
    9. North Carolina (95) $2,348,973
    10. Arkansas (93) $4,030,124

    SIECUS - Funding by State Fiscal Year 2008
    Top 10 States With Highest Teenage Pregnancy and Birth Rates
    50-State and National Comparisons | The National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy -

    Wyoming got none and had teen pregnancy rate of 77.
    North Dakota got a measly $88k and had a low of 42.
    New Hampshire got a measly 92K and had 42

    States with have the most money of the program tend to have the highest birth rates per thousand of teenagers. Pennsylvania is one of the few exceptions.
    Re-read my post.
    My argument was not for abstinence-only sex ed.
    My argument was against all sex ed.
    People are arguing about the most effective way for schools to teach kids how to not get pregnant, whether it be contraceptive education or abstinence education. What is curiously missing from the argument is the option for schools to not try to tell kids how or when to have sex at all.
    Last edited by Dav; 05-08-09 at 07:56 PM.

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    Re: Obama Eliminates Abstinence-Only Funding In Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Why create strawmen?
    Facts aren't strawmen. The federal government isn't allowed to spend any funds on public education.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    So if you have sex and get pregnant then you want the baby? Your reasoning is non-existent. People having unprotected sex stems from a lack of education.
    Doesn't matter if they want it or not. It's amazing, though, how lack of free money from taxpayers and lack of the murder option puts an end to sloppy sex practices, from both parties.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    As long as schools and states keep taking federal funding then yes. Education is a federal issue.
    Sure it is. It's an unconstitutional federal issue.

    You figured that part out, yet? That means it should be stopped.

    Completely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    What simpleton strands of thought you have. Whether or not you like it, strangers a.k.a. tax payers DO bear the burden.
    Only because strangers are threatening them with violence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Thus why it is in the federal government's best interest to stop the problem at the root by ensuring that kids get a proper sex education so that tax payers do not have to pay for their unwanted pregnancies later.
    You're arguing in circles. You're arguing that it's the government's problem because the government breaks it's own laws and also threatens it's citizens with various forms of extortion if they don't pay, whereas instead the argument should be it's not the taxpayers' problem so the government shouldn't be putting out any taxpayer money to cover it.

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    Re: Obama Eliminates Abstinence-Only Funding In Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    My argument was not for abstinence-only sex ed.
    My argument was against all sex ed.
    Fair enough. What's your comparison data? How can we say that teaching kids not to get pregnant equates to more pregnancies when we don't have a benchmark to compare it to? I suppose you could argue homeschooling, but that seems like far too small of a sample. A school district where no sex ed was taught for several years would be a decent comparison.
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    Re: Obama Eliminates Abstinence-Only Funding In Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Fair enough. What's your comparison data? How can we say that teaching kids not to get pregnant equates to more pregnancies when we don't have a benchmark to compare it to? I suppose you could argue homeschooling, but that seems like far too small of a sample. A school district where no sex ed was taught for several years would be a decent comparison.
    Believe it or not- and I did not realize this until recently- sex ed was largely nonexistent before the 1960s. After that teen pregnancies and abortions skyrocketed. Granted, it could be the evolution of culture itself that caused this, I don't know. But in the face of the same story happening with drug education, I think it's worth seeing what happens when the responsibility to tell kids how to act is taken away from schools.

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    Re: Obama Eliminates Abstinence-Only Funding In Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Doesn't matter if they want it or not. It's amazing, though, how lack of free money from taxpayers and lack of the murder option puts an end to sloppy sex practices, from both parties.
    Sub-Saharan African nations have few (if any) social programs, and abortion is illegal or largely unavailable in most of Africa. Yet the birth rates are sky-high. Hmm.
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    Re: Obama Eliminates Abstinence-Only Funding In Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    Believe it or not- and I did not realize this until recently- sex ed was largely nonexistent before the 1960s. After that teen pregnancies and abortions skyrocketed.
    I'm not so sure I buy this. Publicly and more importantly, publicly reported teen pregnancies and abortions skyrocketed. For years during that time period rich families would have their daughters have illegal abortions and pay for it under the table. Not to mention that if you got pregnant, you often got married.

    Granted, it could be the evolution of culture itself that caused this, I don't know. But in the face of the same story happening with drug education, I think it's worth seeing what happens when the responsibility to tell kids how to act is taken away from schools.
    Perhaps, but removing sources of accurate sex ed seems like a bad idea now especially given the current circumstances. Removing the education without changing the underlying problems just gives you a bigger problem.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Obama Eliminates Abstinence-Only Funding In Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    No question. The Liberal Republican Congress and Liberal President that was Bush pushed such irresponsible programs and funding. It is irresponsible to provide factually untrue information as well as omit vital information to our children to allow them to make good decisions. Their irresponsibility stems from the utter incompetence in the abstinence only programs pushed by the Liberal Republican party in the last decade.

    By all means, the liberals in Congress and the White House have passed on their irresponsible nature to the nation's children by funding what amounts to programs of lies.
    Looks like you used your gun to create a self-inflicted wound.
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    Re: Obama Eliminates Abstinence-Only Funding In Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    With all the societal messages from people like yourself saying "go ahead, just be safe about it?"

    I was a virgin till I met my first wife and got married. I had parents that stressed the dangers, while handing me boxes of condoms. Guess what, if they had left it at "just have sex, be safe" I might have made a big mistake.


    Abstinence education needs responsible adults/parents not enabling "friends".
    I agree with you somewhat MrV. I grew up with parents who urged me to remain a virgin until I was married. I, in turn urged my son to remain a virgin until he was married. To me that's something that's normal.

    One of the things my mom said to me that is the absolute truth is: Once you do it, it's easier to say "yes."

    I lost my virginity when I was 16, told my mom and I went on the pill. My son lost his virginity when he was 14 so Gary and I started buying him condoms.

    I think urging abstinence is a part of good parenting but once the horse is out of the barn, it's time to be pragmatic.

    I don't think that abstinence only should be taught in schools. It doesn't make sense to keep kids stupid about what's out there. A lot of kids don't have parents who will urge them to remain abstinent or support them (with safety) when they don't.

    Our kids have to know about the risks, the protection and the options, including abstinence.

    There's a lot of nasty **** out there. I didn't grow up with the risk of AIDS. It scares the crap out of me. If Gary left me I'd wave sex goodbye and get a couple more cats for company.



    I would chat with her when I'm feeling particularly snarky, but I wouldn't ever call her on the phone.

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