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Thread: Obama Releases $3.4 Trillion Budget Plan

  1. #41
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    Re: Obama Releases $3.4 Trillion Budget Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I'm still trying to figure out how the point is relevant/valid.
    Quote Originally Posted by What K said
    It should be noted that while the Bush administration did not allocate funding within their budgets for the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan, the Obama administration has (although I haven't reviewed this budget so I am not sure how much they have allocated).

    EDIT: I just checked the budget and the Department of Defense has been allocated $533.7 billion, which is like 1/6 of the total budget.
    To make valid comparisons of spending levels we must adjust numbers to accurately reflect the actual spending vs the reported spending.

    Thats about it.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Obama Releases $3.4 Trillion Budget Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    To make valid comparisons of spending levels we must adjust numbers to accurately reflect the actual spending vs the reported spending.
    Thats about it.
    So, his post has NO relevance the issue at hand. Thanks.

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    Re: Obama Releases $3.4 Trillion Budget Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    So, his post has NO relevance the issue at hand. Thanks.
    How is that not relevant?

    If people are going to rail against something they need to accurately understand the numbers.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Obama Releases $3.4 Trillion Budget Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    A couple points. First, as a liberal, I criticized President Bush not for giving tax cuts, but for giving tax cuts before we had paid off the debt. Tax cuts should, ideally, be a reward for fixing the deficit and debt. Note that I think Obama's tax cuts where also a mistake for the same reason, and because the extra tax savings is not going to have a significant imp[act on the economy. I save enough from Obama's tax cuts to afford an extra pack of cigarettes a week, which is not going to really stimulate the economy, especially since I am giving almost all of the tax cut back to the government when I buy that pack.
    In other words, the Obama tax cuts are political pandering and nothing more. You are beginning to go into the light; this is a good thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Secondly, you failed to mention a key point, which is that Obama is dealing with a financial crisis, which Bush did not really have to do. When this crisis started, Bush was already on his way out, though I do note that Bush also threw money at the problem. This is why I say that comparing the deficit under the two is not fair, yet.
    I am aware of the fabricated "financial crises" and the ramifications it can have on the political landscape.

    The issue here is that the fear mongering used by Democrats, their willing media and Obama was not intended to actually confront the effects and causes of the "crises", but rather seen as an opportunity to spend the American people into a $1.8 trillion deficit in an effort to promote a Liberal agenda that could not have been done through honest debate.

    Why do I make this claim contrary to some "respected" economists and business leaders? Because I wasn't born yesterday and can recall far worse situations during the Carter years.

    The other reason is that I know that such illogical Keynesian efforts to use the backs of the American taxpayer to promote a LIBERAL agenda and spend us into TRILLION dollar deficits will do NOTHING to make the economy better, but rather exacerbate the problems of unemployment, investment, capital formation and consumer spending because once we get the BILL for this largess and misguided partisan policies, the economy will sink even further into the abyss.

    What you get when you allow Government to decide who the economic winners should be and promoting them by re-distributing wealth to achieve it and spend us into deficits is capital flight (which is the engine of any economy), inflationary pressures due to the vast increase of the money supply and sinking the country further into DEBT with the interest burdens imposed by such out of control borrowing.

    These are of course OPINIONS based on my education and 55 years living experience, but I am perfectly happy to put MY best guess against Obama's any day of the week.

    Ask yourself this; where in any of these debates are these professed 5,000,000 (of course forgetting that the economy is still shedding jobs to the tune of more than 6,000,000 jobs) new jobs going to come from? The Government? Because so far, that is the ONLY entity that is expanding; unfortunately Government produces NOTHING and competes with the free market for scarce funds.

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    Re: Obama Releases $3.4 Trillion Budget Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    I am aware of the fabricated "financial crises" and the ramifications it can have on the political landscape.

    The issue here is that the fear mongering used by Democrats, their willing media and Obama was not intended to actually confront the effects and causes of the "crises", but rather seen as an opportunity to spend the American people into a $1.8 trillion deficit in an effort to promote a Liberal agenda that could not have been done through honest debate.

    Why do I make this claim contrary to some "respected" economists and business leaders? Because I wasn't born yesterday and can recall far worse situations during the Carter years.

    I call bull on this. Unemployment map is a nice little map of west Michigan, with unemployment rates by county. Note that unemployment ranges from 9.6 %(Kalamazoo county) to 19.7 % in Oceana. 11 counties out of 15 shown on the map have unemployment over 12 %. Things have not been this bad in my lifetime, which stretches back to when Johnson was in office.

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    Re: Obama Releases $3.4 Trillion Budget Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    How is that not relevant?
    When discussing the hugeness of the budget and the hugeness of the deficit in that budget, defense spending slipping for 1/5th of the budget ti 1/6th of the budget has no relevance at all -- because the only reason it slipped that little bit is because total spending went up.

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    Re: Obama Releases $3.4 Trillion Budget Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    If people are going to rail against something they need to accurately understand the numbers.
    Yes... like how The Obama's deficit in ONE year equates to 70% of GWB's deficit in EIGHT years...

  8. #48
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    Re: Obama Releases $3.4 Trillion Budget Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    When discussing the hugeness of the budget and the hugeness of the deficit in that budget, defense spending slipping for 1/5th of the budget ti 1/6th of the budget has no relevance at all -- because the only reason it slipped that little bit is because total spending went up.
    Meh, I'm really not in the mood to debate this.

    I think it is relevant to include all expenditures when comparing budgets.

    I like accuracy in reporting of numbers.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  9. #49
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    Re: Obama Releases $3.4 Trillion Budget Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Yes... like how The Obama's deficit in ONE year equates to 70% of GWB's deficit in EIGHT years...
    That is fine. As long as its accurate.

    I don't like Obama and probably never will.
    It was less a debate and more of an FYI in my opinion.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Obama Releases $3.4 Trillion Budget Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I call bull on this. Unemployment map is a nice little map of west Michigan, with unemployment rates by county. Note that unemployment ranges from 9.6 %(Kalamazoo county) to 19.7 % in Oceana. 11 counties out of 15 shown on the map have unemployment over 12 %. Things have not been this bad in my lifetime, which stretches back to when Johnson was in office.
    While I can appreciate the desperate situation the people of Michigan are going through, they did elect Democrats for decades to run their Governments just as the citizens of California have and as a result, BOTH states suffer ABOVE average unemployment rates and HUGE deficits.

    But when we debate National Politics and the state of the WHOLE economy, compared to the worst times during the Crater years, we have not reached them yet.

    It is easy to look up the facts; and yet, during the Crater years we didn't have politicians fear mongering the American people to promote marching the nation deeper into debt.

    When I bought my first home in 1985 I think it was, my beginning interest rate was a variable rate at 8% with a cap of 16.5%. Now THAT is BAD. Compared to now, we haven't even begun to see bad.

    The national rate of unemployment during the peak of the Carter years was around 10.5% and inflation was around 10%. Now THAT is BAD. Compared to now, we haven't even begun to see bad.

    Perhaps you were in a deep slumber during those years or too young to remember, but the notion that what we have been experiencing as being the worst since the depression is nothing more than fear mongering intended to promote a political agenda; in my humble, educated and experienced OPINION.

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