Obama’s Plan on Corporate Taxes Unnerves the Indian Outsourcing Industry

braindrain · May 19, 2009

So Vader let me see if I have this right you want to force U.S. companys to use only more expensive American labour. Than when they want to raise prices on their goods so they stay in buisness and make a profit what than. Are you going to tell them what price they can sell their goods for. Ok so now we do that and now they are about to go out of buisness,because they are losing out to foriegn companies do you want to spend more tax dollars to keep them in buisness or let them go under and all their workers will be without jobs. Makes perfect sence to me.

Vader · May 19, 2009

Goobieman said:
Then, computer tech support people in the US need to be willing to work for less $ in order to compete with the people in Manilia or India.

WRONG.

It's called a living wage.

The corporate ****bags can lose their excessive bonuses so that Americans can have those jobs.

Vader · May 19, 2009

braindrain said:
So Vader let me see if I have this right you want to force U.S. companys to use only more expensive American labour. Than when they want to raise prices on their goods so they stay in buisness and make a profit what than. Are you going to tell them what price they can sell their goods for. Ok so now we do that and now they are about to go out of buisness,because they are losing out to foriegn companies do you want to spend more tax dollars to keep them in buisness or let them go under and all their workers will be without jobs. Makes perfect sence to me.

Corporate welfare - NO

Microsoft's prices are already outrageous. Microsoft's prices didn't drop when they outsourced tech support; therefore, those jobs can return to the United States and Microsoft has no reason to raise prices.

Also --- we're talking about tech support NOT MANUFACTURING!!!!

Although --- Dell, Gateway, ect ... should be forced to keep computer production in the United States.

AMERICA FIRST --- BFE last.

Finally, stop making excuses for big business.

Vader · May 19, 2009

Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Nothing wrong with either capitalism or selfishness.

Both are quintessentially American, in fact, and how this nation became great.

WRONG.

Once captialism begins to kill the ecomony --- it must be curb-checked.

Every once in a great while the invisible hand that runs the ecomony needs to be slapped.

Vader · May 19, 2009

Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Well, that's pretty narrow-minded.

When a company sources it's labor expense outside, it decreases it's operating costs, which either improves the profitability of the company (often making it possible to remain in business), which translates to either higher dividends to share-holders, who...go out and either spend the money in the local economy or re-invest in other companies, or the money is re-invested into the company, again improving it's standing in the market and possibly the development of new endeavors that grow the company further.

WRONG.

Only big business zealots and their supporters say that.

Executives do this to increase their bonues at the expense of the American public. It's unacceptable and it needs to be outlawed.

**** the overpaid executive side--- they can eat a ****ing dick! They are nothing but greedy bastards who deserved to be forced to work for the horrible wages they pay their non-executives.

Scarecrow Akhbar said:
On the other side, the company is typically charging less to remain competitive with others in the market, and when companies are competing for market share by pulling down prices, the consumer benefits because the dollars they're not spending that service can be either invested or spent as the consumer sees fit.

Unless they are fixing their prices ... which happens more often than you think.

Scarecrow Akhbar said:
The only people not benefitted by outsourcing are the overpriced employees who made outsourcing an economic interest in the first place.

High priced? Have you seen what these scum-sucking executives are getting payed? If anything, their jobs should be outsourced.

People who called American labor "overpriced" are living in a dream world. Why should the working class suffer so some grossly overpaid, ****-sucking executive wants to pay less on labor (except for himself and his fellow executive ********ers) so that he can get a bigger bonus.

Your logic is flawed and you should be ashamed of yourself.

Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Right. Absolutely no tax dollars are spent on corporate welfare when Democrats control either the White House or the Congress.

Republicans INVENTED corporate welfare. Quit tyring to pass the blame for an evil YOUR PARTY caused.

Scarecrow Akhbar said:

Absolutely not. You're a paragon of reason and clarity.

Click to expand...

I do my best.

Scarecrow Akhbar said:

Or...maybe you made a bad career choice.

Click to expand...

Republican rhetoric. You fail.

Scarecrow Akhbar said:

I joined the Navy to learn how to run a nuclear reactor, a fine career choice, then that Hanoi Jane broad decided to declare war on the United States and attacked our nuclear power industry with an ignorant propaganda screed, and the media fed that paranoia with inflated angst over a minor accident in Pennsylvania that injured no one.

So guess what?

Pick another damn career and quit whining. No one cares.

Click to expand...

I joined the Navy to get the government to pay my way through college and law school.

Guess what?

I got medically discharged.

Also ...

Stop making excuses for corporate ********ery.

Vader · May 19, 2009

TheNextEra said:
I wouldn't go so far as to say they are un-American, however, I don't think they should benefit from it by tax breaks and other corporate benefits for from the U.S. government if they do it.

I hate outsourcing with a passion, but I don't think it is un-American, I think it is capitalistic and selfish.

Outsourcing should automatically terminate all tax breaks and add an additional 25% to the taxes which must be paid by the offending corporate scumsuckers.

Kandahar · May 19, 2009

Vader said:
Outsourcing should automatically terminate all tax breaks and add an additional 25% to the taxes which must be paid by the offending corporate scumsuckers.

How do you define "outsourcing" and how do you propose to measure it within individual corporations?

jamesrage · May 19, 2009

Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Whatever. Americans have the right to OWN property. If they're not allowed to make decisions regarding it's use, they don't "own" it. It's perfectly American to allow people to make their own business choices.

Putting America at the mercy of other nations by shipping all our manufacturing jobs is un-American.

It's perfectly un-American to deny them that freedom.

It not un-American to impose tariffs to protect jobs and allow American companies to be able to compete with foriegn companies(outsourced companies are no longer American)

How about starting with the ones you want imposed preventing outsourcing?

Tariffs and taxes do not prevent outsourcing. They may discourage outsourcing but they certianly do not prevent it.

Then we can move on to silly regulations and taxes. There's plenty.

Are you able to cite those regulations and taxes?

Yes. US labor laws are a hindrance.

Which ones,any sources?

The Messiah signed into law a silly bill guaranteeing "equal pay for equal work",

What is wrong paying two men who have worked the same number of years and done the same amount of work equal pay?

as if, first off, the agreements between an employer and employee aren't their private business, and secondly,

These wage laws are to ensure we do not have Andrew Carnige steel workers wages. Because if employers though out the country all started paying wages of a dollar or less then you really wouldn't have a choice to refuse if you were in dire need of work.

Labor works on the supply demand curve when employers are allowed to have equal say in that curve.

Employers wish to expand their supply of labor through outsourcing and illegal immigration so they can justify not paying a man his worth for his work.

Employers are not allowed to permanently replace workers who refuse to work, aka strikers, for example.

Unions do serve some good,grant it a lot of unions have gotten greedy, there is no reason why a person who is in a job that is not a risk to his health needs health insurance,especially for those who do not work for the company.

No. Clearly it's twice as expensive to run manufacturing enterprises and telephone service-related functions in China and India, that's why business outsource to those places.

No ,those companies have outsourced because labor is cheaper. It why dishonest companies hire illegals,its to pocket more money by cutting corners.

You are aware that turtles are ecologically successfull animals only in extremely narrow niches, right?

Again those companies seemed to be doing just fine before WTO.

obvious Child · May 19, 2009

Vader said:
Outsourcing should automatically terminate all tax breaks and add an additional 25% to the taxes which must be paid by the offending corporate scumsuckers.

So you'd rather have an American firm fire all of its workers and shut down rather than have them fire some and outsource some of the work?

obvious Child · May 19, 2009

Vader said:
Microsoft's prices are already outrageous. Microsoft's prices didn't drop when they outsourced tech support; therefore, those jobs can return to the United States and Microsoft has no reason to raise prices.

So the government should interfere and tell firms that they cannot sell a product a prices people are willing to pay for?

Although --- Dell, Gateway, ect ... should be forced to keep computer production in the United States.

So you're willing to pay maybe two to three times the price for a computer?

obvious Child · May 19, 2009

jamesrage said:
It is completely anti-American to allow companies to outsource in the first place.

So it's anti-American to provide large returns to American shareholders?

Outsourcing ensures that we will be a nation that doesn't make anything even our own weapons and will be at the mercy of other countries.

Incorrect. Outsource ensures that countries don't produce goods and services that they have disadvantages in. Last I checked, America is still very good in R&D which is the backbone of the defense industry.

What oppressive rules and regulations are these?

The ones you are calling for.

Any documentation to show the difference between the overhead and taxes between here and India or here and China? What so-called oppressive regulations are there that somehow kept companies from surviving before outsourcing? IS there any documentation to show that these companies were doing miserable before companies started outsourcing?

overhead and taxes are relatively minor. The issue is wages.

The solution is to get out of world trade,companies seemed to be doing just fine before WTO.

So you're willing to pay much more for clothes, computers, and food? You do realize that the WTO enforces equal terms for American exports no? That American steel industries have used the WTO to enforce equal play fields?

Vader · May 19, 2009

Kandahar said:
How do you define "outsourcing" and how do you propose to measure it within individual corporations?

Any company that has sent jobs once held by Americans overseas is guilty of outsourcing.

Any company outsourcing jobs to countries other than the United States must be forced to lose all tax breaks and pay a 25% outsourcing penalty.

Vader · May 19, 2009

obvious Child said:
So the government should interfere and tell firms that they cannot sell a product a prices people are willing to pay for?

Again ... I WAS TALKING ABOUT TECHNICAL SUPPORT AND CUSTOMER SERVICE.

I cannot see why paying A+ certified Americans to do the work that non-certified 3rd worlders are doing is a bad thing.

Big business doesn't want to pay Americans a fair wage --- this is bull****. If these businesses are worried about execessive wages, THEY CAN GIVING THEIR EXECUTIVES OUTRAGEOUS SALARIES AND BENEFITS.

obvious Child said:
So you're willing to pay maybe two to three times the price for a computer?

Yet more republican threats and rhetoric. Republicans always spout off about price hikes when their salaries and bonues are threatened.

Kandahar · May 19, 2009

Vader said:
Any company that has sent jobs once held by Americans overseas is guilty of outsourcing.

What if a company fires their American "communications representatives" and hires some Indian "communications associates"? How do you determine if the job was once held by Americans?

Even if they have the same title, that doesn't mean anything. Most outsourced jobs serve the local market. For example, if Wal-Mart shuts down an unprofitable store in Milwaukee and opens a new store in Mumbai - staffed by Indians, run by Indians, serving mainly Indian customers - is that outsourcing?

Vader said:
Any company outsourcing jobs to countries other than the United States must be forced to lose all tax breaks and pay a 25% outsourcing penalty.

That is retarded, unenforceable, and would result in other countries retaliating, making ALL nations worse off.

Vader · May 19, 2009

Kandahar said:
What if a company fires their American "communications representatives" and hires some Indian "communications associates"? How do you determine if the job was once held by Americans?

The fact that they fired an American and hired an Indian in India to do this job makes it outsourcing.

Kandahar said:
Even if they have the same title, that doesn't mean anything. Most outsourced jobs serve the local market. For example, if Wal-Mart shuts down an unprofitable store in Milwaukee and opens a new store in Mumbai - staffed by Indians, run by Indians, serving mainly Indian customers - is that outsourcing?

If the store is in India, then having Indian employees in NOT outsourcing.

Kandahar said:
That is retarded, unenforceable, and would result in other countries retaliating, making ALL nations worse off.

No, it's not. It would force big businesses to return outsourced jobs to America. This would help the American ecomony recover by providing employment (which provides spendable income) to unemployed Americans.

It will NOT make all nations worse off. That is bull**** Republican rhetoric.

Kandahar · May 19, 2009

Vader said:
The fact that they fired an American and hired an Indian in India to do this job makes it outsourcing.

But it's not the same job in my example. The Americans who were laid off were "communications representatives." The Indians are "communications associates." How are you going to determine if it's the same job?

Furthermore, what if they laid off some Americans now, due to the economic downturn...and a few years down the road when the economy recovers, they decide to hire some Indians. The two decisions were not necessarily linked in any way. Is that outsourcing?

Vader said:
If the store is in India, then having Indian employees in NOT outsourcing.

Then what you're saying doesn't make any sense at all. Wal-Mart is an "American company" (whatever that means). Most of those other evil corporations you want to harass are also based in the United States. So what's the distinction?

Vader said:
No, it's not. It would force big businesses to return outsourced jobs to America. This would help the American ecomony recover by providing employment (which provides spendable income) to unemployed Americans.

It would induce other countries to retaliate and it would raise the price of goods and services to the consumers. No one wins from protectionism.

Vader said:
It will NOT make all nations worse off. That is bull**** Republican rhetoric.

You're funny. :lol:

Vader · May 19, 2009

Kandahar said:
But it's not the same job in my example. The Americans who were laid off were "communications representatives." The Indians are "communications associates." How are you going to determine if it's the same job?

They are the same job. You're splitting hairs in favor of corporate corruption.

Kandahar said:
Furthermore, what if they laid off some Americans now, due to the economic downturn...and a few years down the road when the economy recovers, they decide to hire some Indians. The two decisions were not necessarily linked in any way. Is that outsourcing?

If the company hires Indians who work in India doing the same work Americans were doing, IT IS OUTSOURCING.

Kandahar said:
Then what you're saying doesn't make any sense at all. Wal-Mart is an "American company" (whatever that means). Most of those other evil corporations you want to harass are also based in the United States. So what's the distinction?

The difference is that the store is in India. It's not operating in the United States with a 100% Indian employee base.

Kandahar said:
It would induce other countries to retaliate and it would raise the price of goods and services to the consumers. No one wins from protectionism.

More rhetoric. Other countries are NOT going to retaliate. This is a backwards Republican money-monger view of the situation. It is NOT in ANY WAY connected with reality.

It is a republican excuse for screwing the American public while making a huge bonus.

Kandahar said:
You're funny. :lol:

You're a republican.

jamesrage · May 19, 2009

obvious Child said:
So it's anti-American to provide large returns to American shareholders?

When its done so at the expense of screwing America out of manufacturing companies and Americans out of their jobs.

Incorrect. Outsource ensures that countries don't produce goods and services that they have disadvantages in
Outsourcing ensures companies are

Outsourcing ensures companies will not produce goods here in the US any company that does produce goods and services is disadvantaged when they are competing with a outsourced no longer American company.

.

Last I checked, America is still very good in R&D which is the backbone of the defense industry.

That does not do any good if they are going to another country to make our weapons. All the R&D is meaningless if they have to go to another country to make our ****. If we go to war with China or one of their allies or if China goes to war against use or one of their allies goes to war against us do you think China is still going to sell us cheap goods,do you think China is going to buy what things we export other than jobs?

The ones you are calling for.

Which ones, am I calling for that were no different than what was here before outsourcing? I want things to be before Clinton signed us on to world trade.

overhead and taxes are relatively minor. The issue is wages.

At least we are in agreement on something.

So you're willing to pay much more for clothes, computers, and food?

Nothing more than globalist anti-American threats. Pro-illegals use this same hogwash in the illegal immigration debate. I am willing to pay more and what I can not afford to buy new I will go to a thrift store or use this thing called law-away(anyone who has been poor or grew up poor in the US should know what lay-away is.Basically its like rent to own but the store holds onto the merchandise until it is fully paid for)

You do realize that the WTO enforces equal terms for American exports no? That American steel industries have used the WTO to enforce equal play fields?

How is it equal playing field when companies outsource for cheaper labor?

I want politicians who claim to be patriotic Americans actually be patriotic and quit selling jobs down the river. I want the same people who gave Obama **** for not wearing a flag pin or not properly saluting the flag or not saluting the flag while supporting outsourcing to be called the hypocrites they are.

Kandahar · May 19, 2009

Vader said:
They are the same job. You're splitting hairs in favor of corporate corruption.

How are you going to DETERMINE if they're the same job? Form a government committee to interview the laid off American workers, then go to India and investigate the job responsibilities, then compare them? What if the Indian government tells them to **** off, as they should?

Vader said:
If the company hires Indians who work in India doing the same work Americans were doing, IT IS OUTSOURCING.

The difference is that the store is in India. It's not operating in the United States with a 100% Indian employee base.

The first statement here contradicts the other statement. If Wal-Mart closes a store in Milwaukee and opens one in Mumbai, how is that different than GM closing a plant in Detroit and opening one in Delhi? Both are American companies with American employees.

Vader said:
More rhetoric. Other countries are NOT going to retaliate. This is a backwards Republican money-monger view of the situation. It is NOT in ANY WAY connected with reality.

Other countries would (and do) retaliate every time we raise our barriers to trade. Look at Bush's steel tariffs for a perfect example of this. Europe quickly retaliated, hurting us more than we hurt them (although everyone was hurt). These destructive beggar-thy-neighbor policies just keep EVERYONE poorer than they otherwise would be...and they rarely even accomplish their intended goal.

Vader said:
You're a republican.

If you say so. :lol:

Erod · May 19, 2009

The terminal hypocrisy is that those who badmouth "outsourcing" are the same people who badmouth strong American corporations who do not outsource.

Basically, any profitable business is evil to liberals. Business should be state run, and profits should be evenly distributed among all citizens.

Lenin would be so proud.

Goobieman · May 19, 2009

Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Or...and this is something some of my computer science friends had to learn IN COLLEGE twenty years ago, is that they didn't p ick the best major and they need to consider an alternate career choice, like electrical engineering or carpentry.

Of course -- I've said for some time now that if you dont want yout job outsourced, then get a job that can't be outsourced.

I had someone then tell me that those jobs could be efefctively outsourced by unskilled and/or illegal immigrants, who would work for less pay.

Khayembii Communique · May 19, 2009

Nothing more than globalist anti-American threats. Pro-illegals use this same hogwash in the illegal immigration debate. I am willing to pay more and what I can not afford to buy new I will go to a thrift store or use this thing called law-away

It doesn't really matter what you do. It's been pretty much proven that consumers will in general buy the cheaper product, everything else being equal. The only way to compete then would be to have some kind of niche, which is more of an exception to the rule than a changing of the rule itself and therefore wouldn't solve the problem, or to enact some kind of protectionist measures, which would be disastrous.

obvious Child · May 19, 2009

Vader said:
Again ... I WAS TALKING ABOUT TECHNICAL SUPPORT AND CUSTOMER SERVICE.

I cannot see why paying A+ certified Americans to do the work that non-certified 3rd worlders are doing is a bad thing.

Because it costs like 5 times the amount? Do you know right now, American health care providers are outsourcing radiological services, such as X-ray reviews to hospitals in India?

And your premiums go down. Imagine that.

Big business doesn't want to pay Americans a fair wage --- this is bull****. If these businesses are worried about execessive wages, THEY CAN GIVING THEIR EXECUTIVES OUTRAGEOUS SALARIES AND BENEFITS.

Minor. Hypothetically, say you give a 500 employees a million dollar bonus. That's an additional $500 million expense in wages. Now, say you give 50,000 employees wage bumps every year of 2% for 10 years and the average salary is $50,000. In the tenth year, costs have spiraled from $2.5 billion to, wait for it: $3.047 trillion (2,500,000,000*(1.02^10).A large corporation cannot afford such salary increases over time. Especially when many employees don't produce that much money compared to how much they cost.

Yet more republican threats and rhetoric. Republicans always spout off about price hikes when their salaries and bonues are threatened.

You should talk to American and Zimmer, not to mention TD. They think I'm a full on Socialist.

Vader · May 19, 2009

Scarecrow Akhbar said:
why?

Why don't computer technicians in the US either compete in the free market place or find some other line of work? Why is it that whenever the left finds a "problem" the only solution they can ever find is to "force" someone to do it their way?

That is pure republican bull****.

Those jobs belong in this country.

PERIOD.

END OF STORY.

You need to lose your job to due to outsourcing. Then you will have a better prospective.

obvious Child · May 19, 2009

jamesrage said:
When its done so at the expense of screwing America out of manufacturing companies and Americans out of their jobs.

Since when was the economic status of the working class more important then those providing the capital?

You're dangerously close to Marx's line of thinking.

Outsourcing ensures companies will not produce goods here in the US any company that does produce goods and services is disadvantaged when they are competing with a outsourced no longer American company.

So Ford, Chrysler and GM aren't American companies since they've been outsourcing large amounts of work for years? You do realize that few companies produce their products in one county?

That does not do any good if they are going to another country to make our weapons. All the R&D is meaningless if they have to go to another country to make our ****. If we go to war with China or one of their allies or if China goes to war against use or one of their allies goes to war against us do you think China is still going to sell us cheap goods,do you think China is going to buy what things we export other than jobs?

This is laughable. Why would we outsource the very high tech components of our economy? Why would we give them our bread and butter?

I want things to be before Clinton signed us on to world trade.

So you want higher prices for inferior quality. And make Americans forced to buy into that. Got it.

Nothing more than globalist anti-American threats. Pro-illegals use this same hogwash in the illegal immigration debate. I am willing to pay more and what I can not afford to buy new I will go to a thrift store or use this thing called law-away(anyone who has been poor or grew up poor in the US should know what lay-away is.Basically its like rent to own but the store holds onto the merchandise until it is fully paid for)

Lay away is fundamentally retarded. Anyone who buys non-necessary items with what amounts to financing is dumb. And explain to me why prices wouldn't rise. It is a clear fact that illegal labor in agriculture has brought food prices down. And tell me, do thrift stores sell medical equipment? How about steel? Tell me, do they sell top of the line semiconductors? :rofl

How is it equal playing field when companies outsource for cheaper labor?

Learn what dumping it before replying.

Obama’s Plan on Corporate Taxes Unnerves the Indian Outsourcing Industry

braindrain

Vader

Vader

Vader

Vader

Vader

Kandahar

Enemy Combatant

jamesrage

obvious Child

Equal Opportunity Hater

obvious Child

Equal Opportunity Hater

obvious Child

Equal Opportunity Hater

Vader

Vader

Kandahar

Enemy Combatant

Vader

Kandahar

Enemy Combatant

Vader

jamesrage

Kandahar

Enemy Combatant

Erod

Goobieman

Khayembii Communique

obvious Child

Equal Opportunity Hater

Vader

obvious Child

Equal Opportunity Hater