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Thread: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

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    Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    What's wrong with a parting shot? There is no need to let American think I'm letting him get away with his attack and trying to simply change the subject. Israel cannot win, they took the land of someone else and started a country on it with mass immigration,
    Um no they were ceded the land by the British government who won the land from the Ottomans, 70% of the land partitioned to become the Jewish state was no owned by "Palestinians" it was owned by the mandate government, 9% was owned by Jews, and only 3% was owned by Arabs.

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    Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    And Israel was set up on land stolen from the individual and collective property of the Palestinians by massive, unwanted immigration and then given the seal of allowance by the international community.
    That is a blatant lie, 70% of the land was owned by the mandate government, 9% by Jews, and only 3% by Arabs. Try again.

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    Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    That is a blatant lie, 70% of the land was owned by the mandate government, 9% by Jews, and only 3% by Arabs. Try again.
    You mean the Jews who made up less than 8% of the population in 1918? That is completely incorrect. The mandate gov't was a colonial power who had double crossed its allies, not a great support for your argument. In fact even if there is some truth to your strange assertion about the mandate ownership that helps my argument.

    Where do people get these fanstasies from? We'll here Palestine being called uninhabited next.

    This seems to diagree with you btw.

    British Mandate of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Last edited by Wessexman; 05-07-09 at 07:24 AM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  4. #44
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    Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    What's wrong with a parting shot?
    It shows you to be hypocritical based on what you said.

    Israel cannot win, they took the land of someone else and started a country on it with mass immigration, by any reasonable standards that is aggression, last time we had this argument you had to resort to nihilism and ex post justification, to defend it which of course means that no one is right or wrong including Hamas today. When provoked I have no hesitation in arguing about the past while maintaining it is not pertinent to the present.
    In 1918 Israel had no right to set up. I mean if we admit it did then we might as well through all ideas of borders and property away.
    I destroyed you in this argument before, and I can do it again. Now, we're having such a nice conversation in a couple of threads. Do you really want to ruin it? Or shall we just move on and discuss solutions? This is precisely why I left the ME Forum and, generally, only mod there, other than correcting a few definitions.


    Israel should leave the West bank and gaza including all settlements, a Palestinian state should be set up and the Pals should recognise Israel and stop any attacks on it.
    OK, I agree with this. How do you see this happening? What would be some of the finer points, such as how should it be administered? How do you see the geographic set up?

    One thing that I have always felt: a split Palestinian State is doomed. What do you think of this and do you see any solutions to it that would be viable to both sides?
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    Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    And Israel was set up on land stolen from the individual and collective property of the Palestinians by massive, unwanted immigration and then given the seal of allowance by the international community.

    But that is gone. It happened, the Israeli's today are not responsbile even if they often far too arrogant over this aspect of their past and the Pals will need to recognise Israel to get anywhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Um no they were ceded the land by the British government who won the land from the Ottomans, 70% of the land partitioned to become the Jewish state was no owned by "Palestinians" it was owned by the mandate government, 9% was owned by Jews, and only 3% was owned by Arabs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    That is a blatant lie, 70% of the land was owned by the mandate government, 9% by Jews, and only 3% by Arabs. Try again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    You mean the Jews who made up less than 8% of the population in 1918? That is completely incorrect. The mandate gov't was a colonial power who had double crossed its allies, not a great support for your argument. In fact even if there is some truth to your strange assertion about the mandate ownership that helps my argument.

    Where do people get these fanstasies from? We'll here Palestine being called uninhabited next.
    I can see where this is heading already. When you guys decide what history really says and realize that arguing about who did what only mires us more in a lack of solution, let me know. I don't see it occurring, but one never knows. Until then, I will not participate in this thread. Time to log off for the night anyway.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    You mean the Jews who made up less than 8% of the population in 1918? That is completely incorrect. The mandate gov't was a colonial power who had double crossed its allies, not a great support for your argument.
    The mandate government won the land that it owned from the Ottoman imperialists then ceded 90% of the land to the Arabs and only 10% to the Jews. Furthermore; in '48 the Jews had a higher population than the Arabs in the land partitioned to the Jewish state, but that is neither here nor there with regards to your blatant lie regarding stealing land. This land was not stolen from the "Palestinians" because the "Palestinians" didn't bloody own it, it was owned by the Ottoman empire and then by the British crown.

    In fact even if there is some truth to your strange assertion about the mandate ownership that helps my argument.
    Just how in the hell does it help your argument? It totally refutes your position regarding stealing land, because in reality the land was given to the Jews not stolen by them. And how can one steal something from someone if they don't own it?

    Where do people get these fanstasies from? We'll here Palestine being called uninhabited next.
    70% of the land was owned by the mandate government, 9% by Jews, and only 3% by Arabs, how hard of a concept is that for you to grasp? It really is quite a simple matter really.

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    Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    It shows you to be hypocritical based on what you said.
    How so? I maintain this kind of argument is not helpful to the debate, I didn't say I wouldn't take part in it.

    I destroyed you in this argument before, and I can do it again.
    You resorted to nihilism and ex post justification. I destroyed your argument. and as you know I never turn down a good argument.

    Now, we're having such a nice conversation in a couple of threads. Do you really want to ruin it? Or shall we just move on and discuss solutions? This is precisely why I left the ME Forum and, generally, only mod there, other than correcting a few definitions.
    We don't but I still maintain that in 1918 Israel had no right to exist and that you did not prove it did last time, saying that it was set up by the UN in 1948 hardly proves that in my mind and thefore classing the later Arabs and pals as simply random and evil aggressors, as American suggested, doesn't quite hold up.

    OK, I agree with this. How do you see this happening? What would be some of the finer points, such as how should it be administered? How do you see the geographic set up?

    One thing that I have always felt: a split Palestinian State is doomed. What do you think of this and do you see any solutions to it that would be viable to both sides?
    That is a hard question of which I could not give an answer off the top of my head. I don't think it necessarily means a state in the West bank can't be set up, it is only Gaza and its situation which is the problem and needs to be decided.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  8. #48
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    Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    The mandate government won the land that it owned from the Ottoman imperialists then ceded 90% of the land to the Arabs and only 10% to the Jews. Furthermore; in '48 the Jews had a higher population than the Arabs in the land partitioned to the Jewish state, but that is neither here nor there with regards to your blatant lie regarding stealing land. This land was not stolen from the "Palestinians" because the "Palestinians" didn't bloody own it, it was owned by the Ottoman empire and then by the British crown.
    Even if this is true, and the only figures provided don;t back you up, it simply shows how a colonial power helped to rob the Palestinians.



    Just how in the hell does it help your argument? It totally refutes your position regarding stealing land, because in reality the land was given to the Jews not stolen by them. And how can one steal something from someone if they don't own it?
    Leaving aside the only actual evidence refutes your position it helps me because it shows the British seized this land and then either willing or not gave a lot to the Israelis.

    70% of the land was owned by the mandate government, 9% by Jews, and only 3% by Arabs, how hard of a concept is that for you to grasp? It really is quite a simple matter really.
    The evidence disagrees.

    British Mandate of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    According to British statistics, more than 70% of the land in what would become Israel was not owned by Arab farmers, it belonged to the mandatory government. Those lands reverted to Israeli control after the departure of the British. Nearly 9% of the land was owned by Jews and about 3% by Arabs who became citizens of Israel. That means only about 18% belonged to Arabs who left the country before and after the Arab invasion of Israel.6

    6 Moshe Aumann, "Land Ownership in Palestine, 1880-1948," in Michael Curtis, et al., The Palestinians, (NJ: Transaction Books, 1975), p. 29, quoting p. 257 of the Government of Palestine, Survey of Palestine.

    Myths & Facts - Partition
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    Last edited by Agent Ferris; 05-07-09 at 07:35 AM.

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    Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    ...................................
    Which British statistics?

    What I quoted came from the Anglo-American committee on Palestine in 1946.

    Institute for Palestine Studies - Home

    This is the British gov't statistics.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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