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Thread: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

  1. #11
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    Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Israel offered to give Arafat everything he asked for; he then refused. Does that answer your question. You have to be anti-semitic to say the stuff you're saying. Israel always has to sacrifice in your book, but never the Palestinians. Read some history, the Turks created this problem, they took the land from the Palestinians.
    So what is Israel "sacrificing" if it returns the territories it occupied in 1967? What is Israel "sacrificing" if it allows Palestinians to return to Israel? Are Palestinians such a blight on the land that their presence will somehow harm Israel?
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Your post shows you're not far from it yourself.
    I don't want to derail the thread or start ad-homs, but being labelled antisemite by someone who believes that Obama is a marxist isn't very worrying...

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    Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Israel offered to give Arafat everything he asked for; he then refused. Does that answer your question. You have to be anti-semitic to say the stuff you're saying. Israel always has to sacrifice in your book, but never the Palestinians. Read some history, the Turks created this problem, they took the land from the Palestinians.
    Whats history got to do with Laila's point? Why must we read up on history in order to create a Jewish-Palestinian peace deal? I dont get your point. Do you just throw **** out there for the sake of it? This is the first time ive heard anything of the sort either. Makes me wonder if your making it up.
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    Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    I disagree.
    Peace can be done without a war. All is needed is sacrifices to be made on both parties.

    I think this time it'll be the Israelis that will be unwilling for peace with the crazies in Government.

    How ironic, the Arabs are finally making concessions on key issues with the promise of recognition and the normalization of relations with the support of the Arab league and US/EU and i bet you alot Israel will reject it ...
    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Israel offered to give Arafat everything he asked for; he then refused. Does that answer your question. You have to be anti-semitic to say the stuff you're saying. Israel always has to sacrifice in your book, but never the Palestinians. Read some history, the Turks created this problem, they took the land from the Palestinians.
    I think you have it backwards. It's not that Laila is arguing against Isreal, but rather that Arafat refused the peace offerring made by Isreal. There's nothing anti-semitic in Laila's veiw of the matter at all here.

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    Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    So what is Israel "sacrificing" if it returns the territories it occupied in 1967? What is Israel "sacrificing" if it allows Palestinians to return to Israel? Are Palestinians such a blight on the land that their presence will somehow harm Israel?
    It won the land in a war. Palestinians have been supporting the firing of rockets into Israel, and you want them to let them back in. Hello!!!
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    'Arabs revising peace plan to win Israel backing for two states' - Haaretz - Israel News

    The most interesting part for me is the fact it was done because of the President's request.
    I wonder what will happen now, hopefully Israel will also make some concessions...
    Laila,

    The Arab initiative--revised or not--can't be a "take it or leave it" proposition, if it is to be a milestone on the road to peace. It can be a constructive starting point.

    But for things to move from concept to concrete substance, the parties will need to engage in direct negotiations. Only through negotiations can differences be bridged and mutual needs accommodated.

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    Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    It won the land in a war.
    It "won the land in a war." Just like Saddam "won the land in Kuwait" when he invaded. But we saw fit to kick him out. Just like we won Iraq in a war. But everyone sure as hell wants us out. Just because Israel "won it in a war" doesn't make the land theirs, it makes occupied territory. Israel didn't gain ownership of it, they took it by force and continue to occupy it. Just like Iraq occupied Kuwait, and we occupied Iraq.

    Palestinians have been supporting the firing of rockets into Israel, and you want them to let them back in. Hello!!!
    And Israel has dropped a mailed fist on them repeatedly. I get it. There is a war going on. But some Palestinians and some Israeli's would seriously like to see an end to the fighting. In fact I would bet most would. The question is how do they reach an amicable solution.

    I'm rather hopeful, even if it sounds naive to be so, that at some point a solution will be reached. I do not think the Israelis and Palestinians are such animals that they simply fight out of instinct. But that's just me.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    But some Palestinians and some Israeli's would seriously like to see an end to the fighting. In fact I would bet most would. The question is how do they reach an amicable solution.
    .
    Polls show that 72% of the Palestinian want the 2-states solution

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    Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    You have to be anti-semitic to say the stuff you're saying.
    Yes, because criticizing Israel in ANY way makes someone an anti-semitic.

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    Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    I have been saying this. With Netanyahu and Avigdor Lieberman at the healm of things, this so called peace deal is going no where. End of. I believe it would have been unlikely to reach a completely satisfactory agreement with the previous party anyway, though not to say it was impossible, now? The window of opportunity is gone. And to further my point, the Jews knew what they where in for when they voted for the Yisrael Beiteinu party, they knew what Netanyahu and Avigdor wanted with Israel, so if a peace solution was reached by the previous administration, clearly it would have come at the expense of a lack of support from the people. Thats where the real trouble starts.
    I've thought about this. Why is Netanyahu the Israeli PM today?

    The Livni block did indeed garner the most votes in the election, but not enough to form a working government without embracing the various minority blocks and thus diluting the Kadima platform.

    Remember that the election was held in the midst of conflict with Hamas. Olmert and Kadima had previously adopted a very moderate postion in regards to negotiations with Abbas. It was Livni's intent to continue this moderate stance after the election.

    Olmert asked, cajoled, pleaded, and warned Hamas to stop the incessant rocket attacks. Hamas refused. Due to the great internal pressures from Israelis fed up with the Hamas attacks, Olmert had virtually no viable alternative except to initiate blunt force.

    I personally believe that if Hamas had stopped with the attacks (even temporarily), Livni would have garnered the plurality necessary to claim uncontested victory and form a majority moderate government. But Hamas didn't stop. It instead increased the tempo and violence of the attacks. Many Israeli voters who had intended to vote for Livni considered the situation and came to the conclusion that Hamas had no intention whatsoever of meeting a moderate Kadima government even halfway. Continued warfare was unavoidable. In such a war environment, many people understandably prefer a hawkish government. This preference sucked precious votes away from Livni and the moderates.

    One could easily speculate that the increased Hamas attacks were calculated to almost ensure that post-election, Abbas would have to deal with the implacable Netanyahu rather than the more moderate and flexible Livni.

    The calculated Hamas rocket attacks were political arrows rather than resistence weaponry. The implications are clear. The result is before your eyes. One could venture to say that Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu is the love child of Hamas rockets and intransigence.

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