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Thread: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

  1. #131
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    Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

    No point in even arguing about Golan or other occupied territory.
    I doubt it will be handed back anytime soon.


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    Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    You mean your unsupported statistics that I debunked.
    No my documented source with a citation, that you didn't debunk in the slightest. What is so hard for you to grasp about this sport YOUR STATS WERE BY DISTRICT NOT BY PARTITION BORDER LINES!!!

    What are you talking about, this doesn't even make sense.
    Damn just damn. More than 60% of the Israeli state was to be in the Negev 85% of which was crown land, that statistic alone shows how bloody skewed your stats are because they don't take into account the partition borders.

    Umm I said it included the West bank before you did.
    lmfao dude your comments are here in perpetuity no sense in lying about them.

    Me:

    "It makes perfect sense as your statistics are by district not by the partition borders."

    You:

    "My stats were from 1946 and for what is now Israel, so it is perfectly clears yours were very wrong."



    And you have not backed this up but been debunked in it.
    I backed it up with a link which had a citation. And once again your own damn source stated that the Negev which made up more than 60% of the Israeli state was 85% crown land demonstrating that those statistics do not debunk mine because they do not take into account the partition borders.

    What are you talking about? The area is the same the total should not matter. This makes absolutely no sense.
    Your stats do not take into account the border lines of course that matters when determining who owned the land partitioned for the state of Israel.

    Rubbish. You stats are not backed up and make no sense.
    BS I provided a link with a citation.

    Try again calmly and slowly.
    Your trying to disprove my stats regarding the partition borders by using statistics by district which don't take into account the border lines. This isn't a hard concept to grasp, the figures for the Negev alone demonstrate that your stats are skewed regarding the ownership of the partitioned land.

  3. #133
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    Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    No my documented source with a citation, that you didn't debunk in the slightest. What is so hard for you to grasp about this sport YOUR STATS WERE BY DISTRICT NOT BY PARTITION BORDER LINES!!!
    So? They were about Israel and the West bank and even with the West bank they show you are wrong, as does the stuff you posted.


    Damn just damn. More than 60% of the Israeli state was to be in the Negev 85% of which was crown land, that statistic alone shows how bloody skewed your stats are because they don't take into account the partition borders.
    What are you talking about, this makes no sense.



    lmfao dude your comments are here in perpetuity no sense in lying about them.
    Me:

    "It makes perfect sense as your statistics are by district not by the partition borders."

    You:

    "My stats were from 1946 and for what is now Israel, so it is perfectly clears yours were very wrong."
    What is wrong with that? I meant what is not Israel or occupied by Israel, I thought you were suggesting it was for Jordan et al.



    I backed it up with a link which had a citation. And once again your own damn source stated that the Negev which made up more than 60% of the Israeli state was 85% crown land demonstrating that those statistics do not debunk mine because they do not take into account the partition borders.
    What you just linked backed me up.

    Your stats do not take into account the border lines of course that matters when determining who owned the land partitioned for the state of Israel.
    Sure they do.


    Your trying to disprove my stats regarding the partition borders by using statistics by district which don't take into account the border lines. This isn't a hard concept to grasp, the figures for the Negev alone demonstrate that your stats are skewed regarding the ownership of the partitioned land.
    What are you talking about? This makes no sense.

    I mean if you don't want to get pwned again at least make sense.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  4. #134
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    Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post

    This proves me right, it shows Arabs owned a lot more land in almost all areas.


    Nearly 60% of the entire Israeli state fell into the Negev desert of the Beersheba district 85% of which was crown land.
    So? Did most Israelis live there? And did they not get this by the use of a colonial power rather than any agreement with those who live there. If the British had sold the unowned land of India to foreigners it still would have been theft. The rest of Israel was not in this area and that is where most of the people lived and most were displaced. Would the Israelis have settled with the Negrev desert alone? Your argument is absurd. Even if it was all the Negrev Desert it would still be done by mass immigration and the transferring of other people's collective property through a colonial power. I have never heard someone suggest the wilderness area in a colonial country is not that country's when it gets its independence and most of the population of the Negrev were Arabs.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  5. #135
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    Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

    I can settle this once and for all.

    Give the land back to the neanderthals.

    They were there FIRST........

  6. #136
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    Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

    Quote Originally Posted by cherokee View Post
    I can settle this once and for all.

    Give the land back to the neanderthals.

    They were there FIRST........
    If we were discussing if they were random aggressors then that comment might have some relevance, as they are not and we are discussing issues within living memory it does not. If your father had had his land and house stolen would you be happy about it? Would you accept it? If we took your objection seriously it would mean that if someone stole your house while you were on holiday we should just say to you, get over it. Clearly centuries ago is too long to really bother about but yesterday is not, one has to balance it and this is something within living memory so it still has a lot of meaning and reality, particularly for the context I was discussing ie American's assertions the Arabs are the random aggressors.

    It might apply better to those who give ancient justification for the Israeli taking of land in the West bank though, that is not 60 years ago but centuries.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 05-09-09 at 09:40 PM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    This proves me right, it shows Arabs owned a lot more land in almost all areas.
    No it does not it is by district not the partition boundaries. How is this such a hard concept to graps.

    So?
    So that figure proves that your stats do not debunk mine.

    Did most Israelis live there? And did they not get this by the use of a colonial power rather than any agreement with those who live there.
    They got it from the title holders of the land IE the British government, you assert that they stole the land and that is a lie, you can't have something stolen from you that you don't own, the two concepts are mutually exlcusive, title was transferred from the Ottoman empire to the British empire, the Arabs now calling themselves Palestinians since 1967 didn't own it.

    If the British had sold the unowned land of India
    India was a state not a mandate or a territory.

    to foreigners it still would have been theft.
    The rest of Israel was not in this area and that is where most of the people lived and most were displaced.
    No actually if you look at your map and the one I provided with the partition borders much of that land was owned by Jews and the crown as well hence the statistics which I provided. In the land partitioned for Israel more Jews held title than Arabs and the vast majority of it was public land owned by the British government after title was transferred from the Ottomans. ARABS DIDN'T OWN IT!

    Would the Israelis have settled with the Negrev desert alone? Your argument is absurd. Even if it was all the Negrev Desert it would still be done by mass immigration and the transferring of other people's collective property through a colonial power.
    Collective property? It was government owned property and always was and Jews owned more of the land than Arabs.

    I have never heard someone suggest the wilderness area in a colonial country is not that country's when it gets its independence and most of the population of the Negrev were Arabs.
    What ****ing country? There has never in the history of this planet been a Palestinian state. Jews owned more land than Arabs and the British owned more than both. Furthermore; your assertion regarding population is also a lie, Jews were in the majority within the lands partitioned for the state of Israel.

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    Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    So? They were about Israel and the West bank and even with the West bank they show you are wrong, as does the stuff you posted.
    No it doesn't actually because your statistics don't take into account the partition borders it is by district.

    What are you talking about, this makes no sense.
    You don't make any sense your statistics from that map by district in no way debunk my statistics for the partition borders. More Jews owned land in the land designated for Israel than did Arabs and the British owned more than both.

    What is wrong with that? I meant what is not Israel or occupied by Israel, I thought you were suggesting it was for Jordan et al.
    There was an Arab state partitioned from the lands west of the Jordan river as well hence the map I provided with the partition border lines.

    What you just linked backed me up.
    No it doesn't, the map from your wiki link does not debunk my statistics as it is once again by district NOT BY THE PARTITION BORDER LINES.

    Sure they do.
    lol you can't be serious they are by district and not by the partitioned Arab and Jewish states. When shown both maps it is clear that most of the Jewish state was crown land:



    Now here is the Partition plan border lines:



    What are you talking about? This makes no sense.

    I mean if you don't want to get pwned again at least make sense.
    You pwned yourself, your own statistics prove me right and you wrong, they in fact back up my claim because they demonstrate that the Negev was 85% crown land and the Negev accounted for more than 60% of the land partitioned for the state of Israel.
    Last edited by Agent Ferris; 05-10-09 at 05:05 PM.

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    Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    If we were discussing if they were random aggressors then that comment might have some relevance, as they are not and we are discussing issues within living memory it does not. If your father had had his land and house stolen would you be happy about it?
    Jews owned more land within the borders partitioned for the state of Israel and the British owned more than both Arab and Jew combined, nobody stole anything that is a flagrant lie and you've already been shown it.

    According to British statistics, more than 70% of the land in what would become Israel was not owned by Arab farmers, it belonged to the mandatory government. Those lands reverted to Israeli control after the departure of the British. Nearly 9% of the land was owned by Jews and about 3% by Arabs who became citizens of Israel. That means only about 18% belonged to Arabs who left the country before and after the Arab invasion of Israel.6

    6 Moshe Aumann, "Land Ownership in Palestine, 1880-1948," in Michael Curtis, et al., The Palestinians, (NJ: Transaction Books, 1975), p. 29, quoting p. 257 of the Government of Palestine, Survey of Palestine.

    Myths & Facts - Partition
    Last edited by Agent Ferris; 05-10-09 at 05:05 PM.

  10. #140
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    Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    No it does not it is by district not the partition boundaries. How is this such a hard concept to graps.
    So? The Arabs still owned more land in almost all these districts including the Negrev.


    So that figure proves that your stats do not debunk mine.
    Sure they don't.


    They got it from the title holders of the land IE the British government, you assert that they stole the land and that is a lie, you can't have something stolen from you that you don't own, the two concepts are mutually exlcusive, title was transferred from the Ottoman empire to the British empire, the Arabs now calling themselves Palestinians since 1967 didn't own it.
    But the British had no right to it as they had no right to the owned land of India. Do you think the British retained that land in India even after 1947?

    The waste land of a nation is the collective land of its people, so your point supports mine.


    India was a state not a mandate or a territory.
    Not before 1947.





    No actually if you look at your map and the one I provided with the partition borders much of that land was owned by Jews and the crown as well hence the statistics which I provided.
    The crown land is neither here nor there, the British have no right to it, it is the people's ie mostly the Arabs. The Arabs however own much more land that the Jews in almost all districts, so I win.

    In the land partitioned for Israel more Jews held title than Arabs and the vast majority of it was public land owned by the British government after title was transferred from the Ottomans. ARABS DIDN'T OWN IT!
    And the Indians didn't own their waste land but that doesn't make it anyone else's. I have debunked this. Next.



    Collective property? It was government owned property and always was and Jews owned more of the land than Arabs.
    No they didn't. My stats prove that and so do yours. Note that on your little map the Arabs own more land in all districts than the Jews.

    What ****ing country? There has never in the history of this planet been a Palestinian state.
    So? There was never an India. Doesn't mean they have no collective right to the land.

    Jews owned more land than Arabs and the British owned more than both.
    Where is this proof the Jews owned more land. My statistics show that is wrong, and you just ignore them, and your map does as well.

    Furthermore; your assertion regarding population is also a lie, Jews were in the majority within the lands partitioned for the state of Israel.
    Actually they were about 10% in 1918. They grew, often through illegal immigration or the help of a colonial power, but where not a majority.

    The Demographics Of Palestine In 1918

    The findings of the investigation, known as the King-Crane Commission Report make it clear that Muslims made up 80% of the population of Palestine at that time, while Christians made up less than 10% and Jews slightly more than 10%. The report further clarifies that both Muslims and Christians, or somewhere between 80% and 90% of the people of Palestine, were emphatically and almost unanimously opposed to the erection of a Zionist state in Palestine, while Jews were enthusiastically in favor.


    Man I just pwned you good.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 05-10-09 at 10:46 PM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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