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Thread: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

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    wʜɪтe яussɪaи Tashah's Avatar
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    Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

    I just want to take a brief moment to explain a few things here...

    All of you can look at a map and see the Golan Heights and the West Bank (Judea and Samaria) and the border lines. From this perspective, everything looks homogenous and fairly simple. But reality is not so easy-peasy.

    The Golan Heights is so named because of its high elevation. Every military person has a deep appreciation of the high ground. Confederate forces lost at Gettysburg because they could not dislodge Union forces from the local hillocks. How many American soldiers perished taking the high bluffs on Pacific islands such as Iwo Jima? Militarily, it is usually extremely difficult and costly taking the high ground from entrenched forces.

    There has been no peace treaty signed between Israel and Syria since the 1967 war. Technically, a state of war still exists. Until this changes, it would be foolish of Israel to relinquish the high ground of the Golan Heights to Syrian forces.

    Bisecting the West Bank from north to south is the Jordan Ridge. This is also high ground. If you stand on this ridge and look west, you can see the Israeli coastal cities with the naked eye. It would be child's play to lob rockets and artillery rounds into these heavily populated cities from such an elevation.

    I would be strategically uncomfortable withdrawing from the Jordan Ridge cold turkey. As things stand, the Palestinian authorities do not have the personel and the tools necessary to secure this territory from an extremist militia like Islamic Jihad. I would feel much better having an outside force such as NATO patrolling this land for a specified duration of time.

    These are items that a simple map doesn't explain. They are critical items in the minds of most Israelis and must be addressed honestly and satisfactorily.

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  2. #112
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    Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    I agree with you. But the difference between you and voidwar is that you recognize yes, Israel does occupy land and does not as a matter of fact own them. The Jews shouldnt give Golan back until Syria and Palestine make there peace with Israel, but im not willing to say the land occupied by Israel is therefore theres, but im definetly not going to say they shouldnt be occupying it, they pushed there luck, and the Israeli's kicked some arse. I fully respect that. They made the first move, not the Jews.

    Tashah, you as a soldier of the IDF fully have my support on the issue. Its good for once to see the Jews be able to defend themselves within there own soviergn. It makes a change from the usual patterns of history. Regardles if i think Golan is being occupied rightfully or not, theres no denying it doesnt belong to Israel.
    Well said and very much agree.
    Arabs did get their asses kicked nicely ...


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    Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaya '08
    The Jews shouldnt give Golan back until Syria and Palestine make there peace with Israel,
    But even if they do make there peace with Israel the fact of the matter is that Syria has relinquished their claims of sovereignty over the Golan Heights and in fact asserts that it belongs to Lebanon even though that has been completely disproven. So if Syria has relinquished their claims of sovereignty over the territory and it clearly doesn't belong to Lebanon, who but Israel has a better claim to said territory taken during a defensive war?
    Last edited by Agent Ferris; 05-09-09 at 01:18 AM.

  4. #114
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    Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    But even if they do make there peace with Israel the fact of the matter is that Syria has relinquished their claims of sovereignty over the Golan Heights and in facts asserts that it belongs to Lebanon even though that has been completely disproven. So if Syria has relinquished their claims of sovereignty over the territory and it clearly doesn't belong to Lebanon, who but Israel has a better claim to said territory taken during a defensive war?
    The people who live there of course.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaya '08
    I would accept Golan Heights as rightfully Israelis under the context that it was done so under the condition there activies in the region does not account for illegal occupation by the international community, that word alone signalizes its land not owned by Israel but again, rather an occupied region by Israel.
    But here's the rub, whose land is it that they're occupying, just as Egypt and Jordan have renounced territorial claims to Gaza and the West Bank so to has Syria renounced their claims to the Golan Heights and actually states that it belongs to Lebanon which they use as an excuse to allow Hezbollah to continue committing acts of terrorism and not disarm in violation of UN resolution 1559.

    They wanted to play games with fake maps and relinquished their sovereignty claims and were proven liars, so to bad so sad I say.

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    Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    The people who live there of course.
    Israeli's? Gotcha....

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    Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Israeli's? Gotcha....
    Actually most of the population are Druze. The Israelis are UN determined illegals, they don't count as they don't in Britain or anywhere elseas having a voice in the gov't of the nation.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

    Meh I was wrong, it's only the Shebaa farms which Syria relinquished claims of sovereignty to, however, the majority of the population in the Golan heights are Druze (19,300) to whom the Israeli's have offered full citizenship to, and the 2nd highest population are Jewish Israeli's (16,500) with only 2,100 Syrian Arabs.

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    Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Meh I was wrong, it's only the Shebaa farms which Syria relinquished claims of sovereignty to, however, the majority of the population in the Golan heights are Druze (19,300) to whom the Israeli's have offered full citizenship to, and the 2nd highest population are Jewish Israeli's (16,500) with only 2,100 Syrian Arabs.
    The Israelis are illegal immigrants so they have no say.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Arabs revising peace plan to gain Israel backing

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Actually most of the population are Druze. The Israelis are UN determined illegals, they don't count as they don't in Britain or anywhere elseas having a voice in the gov't of the nation.
    Perhaps the Arab league shouldn't have responded with the "three no's" when Israel offered to return the territory it had captured in return for recognition of Israel. But regardless as to the U.N. claiming illegal settlers, I see no reason whatsoever for Israel to abide by U.N. resolution 242 until Syria does. Lebanon, Jordan, and Egypt abided by said resolution (decades after it was passed) and Israel has returned all of their captured territory.

    From UNSCR 242:

    (ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force....

    Syria is still operating under the "no recognition of Israel, no negotiation with Israel, and no peace with Israel" principles set forth by the Arab league.
    Last edited by Agent Ferris; 05-09-09 at 01:38 AM.

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