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Thread: About that “loan”: Obama team writes off $7 billion taxpayers loaned Chrysler

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    Re: About that “loan”: Obama team writes off $7 billion taxpayers loaned Chrysler

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    We don't agree on much, but sometimes we do find common ground on a few issues. This is one of them.
    That is because you are still politically and morally confused; we are working on bringing you out of that dark night and into the light.

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    Re: About that “loan”: Obama team writes off $7 billion taxpayers loaned Chrysler

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    It's just you, because you don't care about the facts. The government is committing much more than $4 billion to help homeowners.
    No. Accurately stated, the government is wasting much more than $4 billion to help home buyers. No one paying a mortgage is a home owner. The owner of the property is the bank.

    And there's absolutely ZERO constitutional authority for the federal government to be doing any of this.

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    Re: About that “loan”: Obama team writes off $7 billion taxpayers loaned Chrysler

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    Like you said, you don't need it. And just because you don't is no reason to label those who do "deadbeats"...they are not.
    They are.

    They're taking tax dollars from the people who did pay their mortgages, aren't they?

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    Re: About that “loan”: Obama team writes off $7 billion taxpayers loaned Chrysler

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    It is BAD/STUPID policy to EVER use the tax payer’s money to bail out ANYONE period.
    That's not true. Bailouts are essential when A) The entire industry is on the brink of collapse, rather than a few specific companies; B) The industry in question makes the entire US economy function; C) The bankruptcy of the weakest links in the industry will create a cascade effect of bankruptcies.

    The banks meet these criteria. Chrysler and GM do not.
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    Re: About that “loan”: Obama team writes off $7 billion taxpayers loaned Chrysler

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    That's not true. Bailouts are essential when A) The entire industry is on the brink of collapse, rather than a few specific companies; B) The industry in question makes the entire US economy function; C) The bankruptcy of the weakest links in the industry will create a cascade effect of bankruptcies.

    The banks meet these criteria. Chrysler and GM do not.
    It is PURE speculation to suggest that entire industries would collapse if the Government didn't extract taxpayer’s hard earned wealth to bail them out.

    It is also historically inaccurate to suggest that such attempts have been met with success.

    In a Free Market, when companies fail as a result of their own decisions, they are allowed to fail or file for re-organization under chapter 11 bankruptcy laws.

    Companies who are better managed can then take advantage of these failures thus making the most effective use of resources and capital. Those are the realities of how a strong market bases system works and is the BEST system evolved by man we have.

    Any efforts to "manipulate" these markets that struggle for equilibrium in a competitive environment merely exacerbate the problems and the natural fluctuations in business activity we call "recessions."

    Almost all of the problems we experienced last fall could be directly attributed to Government actions or lack of them. The notion that Government can now fix them certainly requires some level of willful denial don't you think?

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    Re: About that “loan”: Obama team writes off $7 billion taxpayers loaned Chrysler

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    That's not true. Bailouts are essential when A) The entire industry is on the brink of collapse, rather than a few specific companies;
    No they're not.

    What's essential is that the government doesn't get so involved in the economy that it causes entire industries to collapse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    B) The industry in question makes the entire US economy function;
    Don't have a one of those.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    C) The bankruptcy of the weakest links in the industry will create a cascade effect of bankruptcies.
    Oh, was Toyota going to file Chapter 11 if GM died?

    No.

    Was EVERY bank going to fail because the biggest ones were about to?

    No.

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    Re: About that “loan”: Obama team writes off $7 billion taxpayers loaned Chrysler

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    No they're not.

    What's essential is that the government doesn't get so involved in the economy that it causes entire industries to collapse.
    The banks were interdependent on one another to such a large degree that when a few of them started going sour, many more did. If it was all the government's fault, it doesn't explain how bad US mortgages resulted in the economic collapse of Iceland, Hungary, Argentina, and Pakistan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar
    Don't have a one of those.
    The entire economy would (and did) grind to a complete halt without access to capital.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar
    Oh, was Toyota going to file Chapter 11 if GM died?
    Nope. Toyota, along with the other surviving auto companies, would absorb GM's share of the market, thus benefiting in the long-term. Hence why I opposed the bailout of GM and Chrysler. Try to keep up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar
    Was EVERY bank going to fail because the biggest ones were about to?
    A lot of them would, yes. If the big ones go bankrupt, then many banks to whom they owed money would go bankrupt, then many banks to whom THEY owed money would go bankrupt, etc.
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    Re: About that “loan”: Obama team writes off $7 billion taxpayers loaned Chrysler

    Here is another side to this story.

    Apparently a lawyer for the senior creditors is asking the bankruptcy judge to throw this out because of the 5th amendment.

    "No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

    Threatened Chrysler creditors given delay - UPI.com

    NEW YORK, May 4 (UPI) -- A New York bankruptcy judge honored a request from threatened creditors to delay a hearing on bidding procedures for Chrysler LLC's assets Monday.
    Among Monday's developments, an attorney representing creditors said some had received death threats over their role in Chrysler's demise.

    Attorney Thomas Lauria asked Judge Arthur Gonzales to keep the identities of the threatened creditors a secret. They have been referred to police and the FBI for assistance, the News said.
    The governments of Canada and the United States have agreed to loan Chrysler $10.5 billion to help the company restructure.
    I wasn't aware that Canada had also loaned them money.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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