U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanistan

ADK_Forever · May 25, 2009

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

GySgt said:
Some would call this childish.

And yet, here you are. :roll:

Oh here it is in the CIA handbook....."stack naked bodies up in pyramid formation for fun." Oh and here it states to..."have sex with married superior and have baby."

These were idiot civilians in uniform behaving badly. Nothing more. It's not about defending anybody. It's about seeing it for what it is and not invoking exaggeration to cling to crap. And given your avatar, it would appear that you are more interested in the exxageration over the simple truths. What do you say to all those civilians "murdered" under Obama in Afghanistan? Not as delicious when "Bush" isn't in the sentence is it?

For someone so involved in the military you are very NOT educated with what really goes on, ehh? :roll:

Cheney and Rumsfeld sent a group of not professional CIA interrogators, from Gitmo, over to Abu Ghraib to do the same thing there that they were doing at Gitmo. Since you're in the military, you are aware of this... right? :roll: Oh, that's right, your "Yes Sir!" mind set prevents you from seeing reality. No problem. There will always be that population of the military that is only as open minded as they think their superiors want them to be.

For your education of what really went on in your military:

Within months, concerns over the efficacy of interrogations in Iraq led the commander of the Guantanamo Bay detention facility, Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller, to visit Iraq from Aug. 31 to Sept. 10, 2003 and deliver to the commanding general there, Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, instructions to “Gitmo-ize” Abu Ghraib. At the same time, Abu Ghraib’s interrogations chief, Capt. Carolyn Wood, who had served as the interrogation operations officer at Afghanistan’s Bagram detention facility, submitted a “wish list” of interrogation techniques to her chain of command. This is what the Senate Armed Services Committee’s report had to say about that, on page 170 of its report:

Techniques in CPT Wood’s proposed policy can be traced back to the [Special Mission Unit Task Force] in Iraq to Afghanistan and, ultimately, to techniques authorized for use at GTMO by Secretary Rumsfeld in December 2002. The GTMO techniques were, in turn, influenced by techniques used by the Joint Personnel Recovery Agency and the military service SERE schools to train U.S. personnel to resist illegal enemy interrogations.

Click to expand...

Sanchez, on Sept. 14, 2003, issued a new interrogation policy for Abu Ghraib after Miller’s visit, incorporating Wood’s request and the “Gitmo-ization” rules. Central Command was so shocked by its call for “military working dogs, stress positions, sleep deprivation, loud music, and light control” that it ordered him to revise the policy, which he did on Oct. 12, taking away most of those techniques, but adding, “Should working dogs be present during interrogations, they will be muzzled and under the control of a handler at all times to ensure safety.” Dog teams arrived at Abu Ghraib; lax controls over the separation between prison guards and prison interrogators broke down; and what happened at Abu Ghraib between September and December 2003 — “numerous incidents of sadistic, blatant and wanton criminal abuses,” as an investigator, Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba determined — was the result.

Notice that this is a straight line between the the CIA interrogation program at Abu Ghraib, moving like a game of telephone. At each stage, an important safeguard or restriction assumed at an earlier stage — the techniques apply only to the CIA; the techniques are to be used only on Geneva-exempted enemy combatants; the techniques are to be applied only by interrogators — breaks down. Not once do you have to assume that the Bush administration’s principals wanted abuse to happen to reach this conclusion. This is why the law exists, after all: to prevent unintended consequences by well-meaning individuals that veer off into horror. Redefining the law on torture leads to what a 2004 Pentagon investigation called the “migration” of so-called “enhanced interrogation” techniques — even if that investigation didn’t have any mandate for discovering that the origins of those techniques came from CIA programs approved at the highest levels of the Bush administration

The Washington Independent More Cheney Truth-Squaddery

In reading over Bush’s press conference transcript, I was almost starting to feel some sympathy for him. Until I got to this part, which responded to a request to identify his mistakes:

There have been disappointments.

Abu Ghraib, obviously, was a huge disappointment, during the presidency.

Click to expand...

A “disappointment.” That’s the type of language parents use when they catch their kids drinking. It implies that they didn’t really have control. The parents certainly didn't cause anything -- they were just disappointed that their very high standards weren’t being met.

That’s not at all what we have here though. President Bush – authorizer of illegal torture – is not entitled to use the word “disappointment” to describe Abu Ghraib, as if it were some frat party gone horribly awry. Abu Ghraib was – as both Jane Mayer and the Senate Armed Forces Committee have extensively documented – the direct result of the President’s and his top officials’ authorization of torture. And he knows it – and everyone else knows it too.

Indeed, what’s striking is how obvious the trail from SERE to Abu Ghraib is to anyone who cares to look. It's almost embarrassingly clear.

The SERE tactics, as Sullivan notes, were designed to help the American military withstand illegal torture. Here’s how the report (p.2) describes them. See if any of these tactics sound vaguely familiar when thinking about the pictures from Abu Ghraib:

The techniques used in SERE school, based, in part, on Chinese Communist techniques used during the Korean war to elicit false confessions, include stripping students of their clothing, placing them in stress positions, putting hoods over their heads, disrupting their sleep, treating them like animals, subjecting them to loud music and flashing lights, and exposing them to extreme temperatures. It can also include face and body slaps and until recently, for some who attended the Navy’s SERE school, it included waterboarding.

Click to expand...

Wow. What a crazy coincidence that a few bad low-level apples just happened to mimic – precisely – Chinese Communist torture tactics.

Anyway, everyone should read the report to see the trail in all its glory. But the nickel version goes something like this: There’s a division with the Defense Department (DoD) – JPRA – that oversees the SERE tactics and the resistance training. Beginning in December 2001 and beyond, the JPRA briefed, trained, and instructed both senior DoD officials and Gitmo interrogators.

Amazingly, after Gitmo interrogators were actually flown to the US to be trained by JPRA people, SERE tactics started popping up at Gitmo. Some months later, the Gitmo commander traveled to Iraq to toughen up interrogations of detainees. Lo and behold, these very same tactics started popping up in Iraq as well. No one could have predicted ...

Obsidian Wings: A "Disappointment"

Happy Memorial Day, Sarge. :2usflag:

You're quite welcome for the lesson. :2wave:

MSgt · May 26, 2009

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Slippery Slope said:
Oh and try attacking these facts instead of the reporting source this time.

Well, it's pretty hard when your sources are all from side efforts instead of the mainstream. And it is also hard when the individual srpouting those exaggerations also seek to portray the military as a religiously motivated crusading element upon the earth. And you were a Marine Officer? Surely even CNN has something to offer legitimacy to the Abu Ghraib exaggerations?

The exaggerations of Abu Ghraib get more involved year after year.

MSgt · May 26, 2009

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

ADK_Forever said:
You're quite welcome for the lesson.

I appreciate the lesson. But I am here for the discussion, not the your childish antics. Behave as an adult and you will be treated as one. Behave as something less and you will contuinue to encounter friction from the members.

Once again, I don't consider waterboarding as torture. Never did. Even when the CIA was doing during the Cold War when it wasn't a political tool to stage attacks against a rival. Pelosi seems uncomfortable these days. See what I mean? It's a case just like body armor. Nobody cared that troops in Somalia, Haiti, Bosnia, or Kosovo were without. But all of sudden Democrats cared in 2001. I don't buy into the idea that standards set at Geneva to dictate what the world is supposed to adhere to in war applies to an enemy today who plays by his own set of rules not fathomed by white Western men who used to slap each other with gloves to induce a civilized duel.

ADK_Forever · May 26, 2009

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

GySgt said:
I appreciate the lesson.

You're welcome.

But I am here for the discussion, not the your childish antics. Behave as an adult and you will be treated as one. Behave as something less and you will contuinue to encounter friction from the members.

Ok daddyo. :lol: The only friction I see is from people who can't stand the facts. Like you. They don't bother me. But, I appreciate your concern.

Once again, I don't consider waterboarding as torture. Never did. Even when the CIA was doing during the Cold War when it wasn't a political tool to stage attacks against a rival.

You certainly have a right to your opinion. But, you seem quite ignorant on what the law, US and international is. What does matter is what is law. Waterboarding is torture and is illegal. To say that is not true is the proverbial ostrich with his head in the sand. Just put a pic of an ostrich for your avatar and we'll understand.

Does it make you feel ok to know that everyone of those guys who was tortured will never be tried and convicted of their crimes because Cheney and Rummy and Bush got their jollies by torturing them? Don't you think that is the lowest of dumb?

Pelosi seems uncomfortable these days.

She'll be fine. She's handling the Repukes' misdirection efforts easily.

It's a case just like body armor. Nobody cared that troops in Somalia, Haiti, Bosnia, or Kosovo were without. But all of sudden Democrats cared in 2001. I don't buy into the idea that standards set at Geneva to dictate what the world is supposed to adhere to in war applies to an enemy today who plays by his own set of rules not fathomed by white Western men who used to slap each other with gloves to induce a civilized duel.

Your boy, Rumsfeld is the one who didn't give two hoots about providing our soldiers with body armor. Don't kid yourself! what was that he answered when asked why our soldiers don't have that body armor? "You go to war with what you have." :doh He's also the asshat that was directly responsible for many more Americans to be killed, than had to, when he insisted on invading another country with too small a force!

Do yourself a favor and don't jump to defend them just because they gave you your orders. They didn't deserve that kind of blind loyalty from any serviceman. Any!

Slippery Slope · May 27, 2009

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

GySgt said:
Well, it's pretty hard when your sources are all from side efforts instead of the mainstream. And it is also hard when the individual srpouting those exaggerations also seek to portray the military as a religiously motivated crusading element upon the earth. And you were a Marine Officer? Surely even CNN has something to offer legitimacy to the Abu Ghraib exaggerations?

The exaggerations of Abu Ghraib get more involved year after year.

I try to use the most convenient source with the facts. I could spend a greater amount of time sourcing for you but you'll just have to settle on facts instead of where the facts were typed into the internet. Again, dispute the facts or go stare at your navel.

The information on Abu Ghraib gets out more and more each years as documents get released and people come forward.

Slippery Slope · May 27, 2009

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

GySgt said:
I appreciate the lesson. But I am here for the discussion, not the your childish antics.

No you're not, you're here to push your neocon ideals. To the point of denial of fact.

Behave as an adult and you will be treated as one. Behave as something less and you will contuinue to encounter friction from the members.

LOL...

Once again, I don't consider waterboarding as torture. Never did.

If you waterboard someone, Gunny, will you or will you not be prosecuted by either the military or the federal government? Since I know the answer to be yes, then, it doesn't matter what your opinion is, the law is the law and waterboarding is illegal because it is torture.

Even when the CIA was doing during the Cold War when it wasn't a political tool to stage attacks against a rival.

Weak.

Pelosi seems uncomfortable these days. See what I mean?

Not to me she doesn't. So, no I guess I don't see what you mean.

It's a case just like body armor. Nobody cared that troops in Somalia, Haiti, Bosnia, or Kosovo were without. But all of sudden Democrats cared in 2001.

You're the gift that keeps on giving. Because our troops weren't being killed daily due to a lack of body armor. DUH.

I don't buy into the idea that standards set at Geneva to dictate what the world is supposed to adhere to in war applies to an enemy today who plays by his own set of rules not fathomed by white Western men who used to slap each other with gloves to induce a civilized duel.

:rofl So it's the age game, eh? You mean like the Constitution? How about the bible? :rofl

MSgt · May 31, 2009

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

ADK_Forever said:
You're welcome....

Ok daddyo. :lol: The only friction I see is from people who can't stand the facts. Like you. They don't bother me. But, I appreciate your concern....

But, you seem quite ignorant on what the law, US and international is.....

....Just put a pic of an ostrich for your avatar and we'll understand....

.....Don't you think that is the lowest of dumb?....

And this would be that adolescent behavior.

ADK_Forever said:
.....Your boy, Rumsfeld.... is the one who didn't give two hoots about providing our soldiers with body armor.

Rumsfeld was perhaps the worst SECDEF America has ever had. Calling him "my boy" is completely unecessary and childish. Of course, my reasons for disliking him involve more to the reality of his blundering than the half-assed media spoon fed garbage people cling to.

And as for "body armor"....I'm sure you are aware that when I was in Somalia and Haiti.....and others were in Bosnia....that we had no "body armor" either. Despite the policemen on our streets having body armor for decades, the "soldier" alwasy deployed with mere fragmentation jackets. Funny how it became something the Democratic party cared abot when there guy wasn't in the White House. And even worse that slavery induced civilian followers sought it reason enough to care for the troop while aiding the partisan slave fest.

MSgt · May 31, 2009

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

slippery slope said:
If you waterboard someone, Gunny, will you or will you not be prosecuted by either the military or the federal government? Since I know the answer to be yes, then, it doesn't matter what your opinion is, the law is the law and waterboarding is illegal because it is torture.

I'm in the military. The CIA can what ever they want. Doesn't bother me at all. And international law is largely a joke. Ask yourself why Africans are slaughtered under genocide with absolutely no international demand for action. Ask yourself why men can slaughter at will as long as they do so within their borders. International "law" allows this. Why was it "legal" to enter Haiti to correct a soveriegn issue to re-instate the president when it is not "legal" to topple a brutal dictator who slaughters, oppresses, and causes mayhem in an entire region? Why is it "legal" to stop genocide in Europe, but not "legal" to stop it in Africa? Because the UN said so? The same UN that declared our action over Kosovo as illegal? The same UN that looks the other way just to avoid having to address genocide? There's your beloved law.

I do not concern myself with people's hypocritical and intermittent use of international law.

Slippery Slope said:
You're the gift that keeps on giving. Because our troops weren't being killed daily due to a lack of body armor.

........Sure. This is BS partisan politics at its best. No careerest was fooled by the Democratic Party's sudden "care" about the troops and nor was he/she surprised when Americans chose to ride the band wagon.

Nobody cared about body armor after "Black Hawk Down." Nobody cared when Americans were entering Afghanistan. It only mattered when it could be used to protest a war they didn't want. The troops benefitted. But let's not pretend it was because of some noble sentiment of politicians or their dimwitted stooges sitting at home on the couch.

Scorpion89 · May 31, 2009

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Oh and one little item I would like to point out have work with and around CIA Ops the folks in the US Military really have no clue what the CIA as a matter of fact no one really has a clue what type of operation the CIA Station might be running.

This has been the MO for the CIA since 1947.

MSgt · May 31, 2009

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Scorpion89 said:
Oh and one little item I would like to point out have work with and around CIA Ops the folks in the US Military really have no clue what the CIA as a matter of fact no one really has a clue what type of operation the CIA Station might be running.

This has been the MO for the CIA since 1947.

Exactly. The protestors and the pain in the asses of America think they have it all figured out because they read a blog or an "independant" source that exaggerates or assumes the absolute worse. Everything is supposed to have a CIA hand on it and god help the CIA if they were involved with as little as delivering pencil erasers. No matter what the involvement, as long as the CIA can be traced to it in some way, then the conspiracies and the dark shadows of American tyranny seeps from the tongues of the masses.

And it all goes back to simply disliking the man that sits in the White House at the time of event.

MSgt · May 31, 2009

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

With all the detailed and obvious malicious condescension, insult, and eagerness to provoke argument and rule infractions between the two of you (Slope and ADK), I bet you would see yourself as "victims" if I did my job against you, huh?

Just curious.

Scorpion89 · May 31, 2009

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Hey Slop,

You do understand that the US Military performs Waterboarding on US militray folks who go threw SEAR School along with certain types of Civilian folks who have to work let say for the UN in certain Teams(wonder what type of teams these could be).

So if the US Military use Waterboarding then how can it be called illegal answer me that one please.

ADK_Forever · May 31, 2009

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

GySgt said:
And this would be that adolescent behavior.

Act like a child, get treated like one.

Rumsfeld was perhaps the worst SECDEF America has ever had. Calling him "my boy" is completely unecessary and childish. Of course, my reasons for disliking him involve more to the reality of his blundering than the half-assed media spoon fed garbage people cling to.

And as for "body armor"....I'm sure you are aware that when I was in Somalia and Haiti.....and others were in Bosnia....that we had no "body armor" either. Despite the policemen on our streets having body armor for decades, the "soldier" alwasy deployed with mere fragmentation jackets. Funny how it became something the Democratic party cared abot when there guy wasn't in the White House. And even worse that slavery induced civilian followers sought it reason enough to care for the troop while aiding the partisan slave fest.

I get a kick out of you, the way you turn every comment from a Dem re: support for the military, for YOU, into a bash on the Dems. I know you're out in the sun a lot but seriously, do you really believe Democrats don't want the best for our troops, for YOU?!?!?!

You're probably also one of those jar/block heads who thinks a critique against the war, and those who run the military, is indicative of not supporting the troops, ehh? I assure you, no matter what you may have deluded yourself into believing that is not the truth. Not even close! Democrats bleed just as red as you do. You do not have the market cornered when it comes to a "vested interest"!!!

justone · May 31, 2009

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

ADK_Forever said:
You're probably also one of those jar/block heads

He is not, - by definition, - as a member of the USMC. He has not been accused of any doing which would point to him not to be a gentleman, which is the main obligation of a member of the club. You are. You have been demonstrating that you have no ability to be gentlemen. You belong to the club which has no obligations, responsibilities, dues or duties to carry on or pay for the country. A duel between 2 of you is impossible. You are void of duties, obligations and responsibilities by definition.

Slippery Slope · Jun 1, 2009

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

GySgt said:
Rumsfeld was perhaps the worst SECDEF America has ever had. Calling him "my boy" is completely unecessary and childish. Of course, my reasons for disliking him involve more to the reality of his blundering than the half-assed media spoon fed garbage people cling to.

Right, because you have access to the truth while the media is just making **** up.

And as for "body armor"....I'm sure you are aware that when I was in Somalia and Haiti.....and others were in Bosnia....that we had no "body armor" either.

The military and by proxy, the CiC is responsible for the welfare of our troops. When it is evident that our troops are not getting the support they need it's usually the military family that speaks up first; simply because they get the gripes from the troops first. So, the reason no one was bitching loudly about Bosnia, Haiti and Somalia is because (yes I know I said this already but you conveniently ignored it) we didn't have troops being killed daily DUE TO A LACK OF BODY ARMOR.

Despite the policemen on our streets having body armor for decades, the "soldier" alwasy deployed with mere fragmentation jackets.

And who told the American public about it so we could get on Congress? Oh, no one...

Funny how it became something the Democratic party cared abot when there guy wasn't in the White House.

Like I pointed out to you, there were many deaths occurring because of a lack of body armor and military families went to the media to get the word out. But you'd rather play a political game, proving that you are nothing but a partisan hack.

And even worse that slavery induced civilian followers sought it reason enough to care for the troop while aiding the partisan slave fest.

:rofl You lie and deceive and call us slaves...

Slippery Slope · Jun 1, 2009

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

GySgt said:
I'm in the military. The CIA can what ever they want. Doesn't bother me at all.

I notice you didn't want to answer the question. But I'll ask it again anyway just to make sure everyone can see your dodge. If you waterboard someone will you or will you not be prosecuted for it by either the military or the federal government?

And international law is largely a joke.

Really? That's how you view the laws we help write, agree to and become signatories to? So is it only our country that doesn't need to worry about international laws or are there others, in your opinion?

Ask yourself why Africans are slaughtered under genocide with absolutely no international demand for action. Ask yourself why men can slaughter at will as long as they do so within their borders. International "law" allows this. Why was it "legal" to enter Haiti to correct a soveriegn issue to re-instate the president when it is not "legal" to topple a brutal dictator who slaughters, oppresses, and causes mayhem in an entire region? Why is it "legal" to stop genocide in Europe, but not "legal" to stop it in Africa? Because the UN said so? The same UN that declared our action over Kosovo as illegal? The same UN that looks the other way just to avoid having to address genocide? There's your beloved law.

I don't know why you are trying to change the subject... oh wait, yes I do, you must be all out of argument.

I do not concern myself with people's hypocritical and intermittent use of international law.

Well good for you. Now go cry to the UN about how unfair the world is. The USA has it's own laws and one of them is that it's illegal to torture someone and waterboarding it torture. So simple even a jarhead can understand it.

........Sure. This is BS partisan politics at its best. No careerest was fooled by the Democratic Party's sudden "care" about the troops and nor was he/she surprised when Americans chose to ride the band wagon.

Nobody cared about body armor after "Black Hawk Down." Nobody cared when Americans were entering Afghanistan. It only mattered when it could be used to protest a war they didn't want. The troops benefitted. But let's not pretend it was because of some noble sentiment of politicians or their dimwitted stooges sitting at home on the couch.

It was military families that brought the problem to the media because their children were being slaughtered... same with the Helmet issue. See, you're trying to bull**** the wrong guy. Not only was I in the Marines but my son (still in the Marines) went to Iraq so I KNOW the truth about what is and was going on. :2wave:

Slippery Slope · Jun 1, 2009

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Scorpion89 said:
Oh and one little item I would like to point out have work with and around CIA Ops the folks in the US Military really have no clue what the CIA as a matter of fact no one really has a clue what type of operation the CIA Station might be running.

This has been the MO for the CIA since 1947.

GySgt said:
Exactly. The protestors and the pain in the asses of America think they have it all figured out because they read a blog or an "independant" source that exaggerates or assumes the absolute worse. Everything is supposed to have a CIA hand on it and god help the CIA if they were involved with as little as delivering pencil erasers. No matter what the involvement, as long as the CIA can be traced to it in some way, then the conspiracies and the dark shadows of American tyranny seeps from the tongues of the masses.

And it all goes back to simply disliking the man that sits in the White House at the time of event.

Information leaks out and over time documents get released. Ever hear of the Freedom of Information Act? But nice try from both of you.

Slippery Slope · Jun 1, 2009

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

GySgt said:
With all the detailed and obvious malicious condescension, insult, and eagerness to provoke argument and rule infractions between the two of you (Slope and ADK), I bet you would see yourself as "victims" if I did my job against you, huh?

Just curious.

Are you threatening us with penalties, because you can't win an argument. Tell the truth and that might change. Bully.

Slippery Slope · Jun 1, 2009

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Scorpion89 said:
Hey Slop,

I'll just assume you "accidentally" dropped the "e" from my user name instead of accusing you of being an asshole.

You do understand that the US Military performs Waterboarding on US militray folks who go threw SEAR School along with certain types of Civilian folks who have to work let say for the UN in certain Teams(wonder what type of teams these could be).

Hey, welcome to the discussion, sport. It's SERE not SEAR. Look back a few pages, we've already covered and debunked this one.

So if the US Military use Waterboarding then how can it be called illegal answer me that one please.

Because it's against the law. That's what illegal means. A limited form, under strict rules, for training certain people to be prepared for TORTURE that they might receive if captured. Now, please don't repeat your emailed talking point to any more of your neocon friends, doing so would make you a bold faced liar at worst and a deceitful jerk at best and you certainly don't want to be known that way, would you?

Slippery Slope · Jun 1, 2009

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

justone said:
He is not, - by definition, - as a member of the USMC. He has not been accused of any doing which would point to him not to be a gentleman, which is the main obligation of a member of the club. You are. You have been demonstrating that you have no ability to be gentlemen. You belong to the club which has no obligations, responsibilities, dues or duties to carry on or pay for the country. A duel between 2 of you is impossible. You are void of duties, obligations and responsibilities by definition.

By definition, he is a jarhead because he is marine infantry.
He has been proven to be deceitful which is not gentlemanly.

Scorpion89 · Jun 3, 2009

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Slippery Slope said:
I'll just assume you "accidentally" dropped the "e" from my user name instead of accusing you of being an asshole.

Hey, welcome to the discussion, sport. It's SERE not SEAR. Look back a few pages, we've already covered and debunked this one.

Because it's against the law. That's what illegal means. A limited form, under strict rules, for training certain people to be prepared for TORTURE that they might receive if captured. Now, please don't repeat your emailed talking point to any more of your neocon friends, doing so would make you a bold faced liar at worst and a deceitful jerk at best and you certainly don't want to be known that way, would you?

Really Sport so when I went thru SERE and was waterboard I was imaging it correct is that what you are telling me huh.

Second Waterboarding isn't illegal please show me where Congress has actually pass a Law and the President and the Supreme Court Signed off on it and then President signed off on it.

Scorpion89 · Jun 3, 2009

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Slippery Slope said:
The military and by proxy, the CiC is responsible for the welfare of our troops. When it is evident that our troops are not getting the support they need it's usually the military family that speaks up first; simply because they get the gripes from the troops first. So, the reason no one was bitching loudly about Bosnia, Haiti and Somalia is because (yes I know I said this already but you conveniently ignored it) we didn't have troops being killed daily DUE TO A LACK OF BODY ARMOR.

And who told the American public about it so we could get on Congress? Oh, no one...

Like I pointed out to you, there were many deaths occurring because of a lack of body armor and military families went to the media to get the word out. But you'd rather play a political game, proving that you are nothing but a partisan hack.

First off lets take Somalia we were complaining back then to the Brasshats that we need to Body Armor hell there was even an investigation into why we sent combat troops in with out any body armor.

In Haiti we had some Body Armor not much but their was a few units like 101st who had body Armor. but once again a post invasion reported was critical of no Body Armor which was sent to Congress.

Bosnia, I think your slightly off here almost all US Army units had some sort of 1st Generation Body Armor but the stuff was/is crap and there was a complaint sent back to Congress about it.

As for your question on who told the American Public the US military family way back in 1997 when the first reports came out about the lack of proper equipment being used by US Ground Force. Congress was told about this problem in 1993 thru 2000 and didn't do squat wonder why.

Yes your correct that their were allot of deaths but many of those deaths could have should have been avoided if the troops actually had the correct Body Armor unstead of the 40 Year Old Flack Jackets and if Congress had done it's job.

ReverendHellh0und · Jun 3, 2009

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Scorpion89 said:
Hey Slop,

You do understand that the US Military performs Waterboarding on US militray folks who go threw SEAR School along with certain types of Civilian folks who have to work let say for the UN in certain Teams(wonder what type of teams these could be).

So if the US Military use Waterboarding then how can it be called illegal answer me that one please.

It's SERE....... Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape school.

When I went through it, there were no civillians. but then again, i wasn't looking out for em. :lol:

ReverendHellh0und · Jun 3, 2009

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Scorpion89 said:
First off lets take Somalia we were complaining back then to the Brasshats that we need to Body Armor hell there was even an investigation into why we sent combat troops in with out any body armor.

In Haiti we had some Body Armor not much but their was a few units like 101st who had body Armor. but once again a post invasion reported was critical of no Body Armor which was sent to Congress.

Bosnia, I think your slightly off here almost all US Army units had some sort of 1st Generation Body Armor but the stuff was/is crap and there was a complaint sent back to Congress about it.

As for your question on who told the American Public the US military family way back in 1997 when the first reports came out about the lack of proper equipment being used by US Ground Force. Congress was told about this problem in 1993 thru 2000 and didn't do squat wonder why.

Yes your correct that their were allot of deaths but many of those deaths could have should have been avoided if the troops actually had the correct Body Armor unstead of the 40 Year Old Flack Jackets and if Congress had done it's job.

I thought Operation Deliberate Force was an air campaign? Was there a need for body armor in 96 after this? , and no, they had the ****ty PASGT vest :2wave:

ADK_Forever · Jun 3, 2009

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Scorpion89 said:
Really Sport so when I went thru SERE and was waterboard I was imaging it correct is that what you are telling me huh.

Second Waterboarding isn't illegal please show me where Congress has actually pass a Law and the President and the Supreme Court Signed off on it and then President signed off on it.

Being waterboarded during training is... TRAINING.

Being waterboarded in an effort to get info from you, is.... TORTURE.

Torture, including waterboarding is... ILLEGAL!

People have been tried and convicted of doing it. The USA prosecuted people for doing it. US citizens too!

To continually say it is not torture and not illegal is... well... ignorant. :2wave:

U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanistan

ADK_Forever

MSgt

Read Some Books

MSgt

Read Some Books

ADK_Forever

Slippery Slope

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MSgt

Read Some Books

MSgt

Read Some Books

Scorpion89

MSgt

Read Some Books

MSgt

Read Some Books

Scorpion89

ADK_Forever

justone

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Scorpion89

Scorpion89

ReverendHellh0und

I don't respect you.

ReverendHellh0und

I don't respect you.

ADK_Forever