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U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanistan

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

That's really gross. Maybe you need a chaplain for your deviant ways. :mrgreen:
You probably never heard of a "combat jack" either... :rofl
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

And I did find it interesting because basically you said that if the military or its personnel do anything wrong, that we should ignore it because they'll take care of it themselves. On which I further commented that I do not have faith in "self-policing" arms of the government, I don't think it happens; least not well enough should there be an overall problem.

Well, take it however you like, but NJPs and Court Martials happen all the time without your demands for discipline and punishment. Soldiers and Marines that were caught trying to get back weapons from Afghanistan and Iraq for trophies or memorabilia were Court Martialed. And this was without the public outcry for exaggerations and drama.

The same is true for innapropriate behavior of any sort in these countries. Now, those that were handing out Bibles were probably told to "stop it" and thusly escaping the loooong arm of the self-righteous looking to flog them to death for their behavior, but there are bigger problems.
 
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Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Well, take it however you like, but NJPs and Court Martials happen all the time without your demands for discipline and punishment. Soldiers and Marines that were caught trying to get back weapons from Afghanistan and Iraq for trophies or memorabilia were Court Martialed. And this was without the public outcry for exaggerations and drama.

The same is true for innapropriate behavior of any sort in these countries. Now, those that were handing out Bibles were probably told to "stop it" and thusly escaping the loooong arm of the self-righteous looking to flog them to death for their behavior, but there are bigger problems.

Fair enough. I'll buy it.

I still don't trust "self-policing" government though.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Not if there is a rule against it, because you are never NOT representing the military during enlistment.

So when my Marine friend comes back here to visit he isn't allowed to go proselytize when not in uniform? You honestly think that is true?
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

This is just messed up in so many ways and disgust me:(
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

What crime? What Code of Conduct or Court Martiable offense took place?

You people are running off at the mouth over a non-story.
If it's such a non-story then why don't all of you excuse makers just say - yeah, they aren't supposed to do it and they shouldn't - end of discussion. Instead, people want to argue that it's not that bad or that it's not really happening, et al.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

I understand the concept just fine, thank you.

This does not make there perception or anyone else's that think a book can insult you anything other than childish, period.
Then if you do understand the concept, why are you arguing against it?

Childish or not is irrelevant. Perception is reality. We want to be perceived as being there for a specific task, if we are perceived to be insulting or undermining their religion then that will undermine our real task.

Think of it this way, if joe the afghan thinks Americans are proselytizing or trying to convert people to xianity and joe the afghan goes to his tribal leader and says so, do you think joe the tribal leader will be inclined to help the Americans when asked?
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

You are truly ignorant with a little rabid blind hate sprinkled in.
Since you have no reasonable counter argument you resort to ad homs. Typical.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Well, I think I'm with you on this but here's the catch.....

During the Cold War, the military and the CIA had one enemy. Even though nuclear holocaust was the fear, we lived in a predictable, simple era. After the Cold War, the CIA found itself without a mission. The politicians on both sides of the aisle cheered over the prospect that "we won" and that final peace was upon us. They began to strip down the military numbers and cut funding to both the military and the CIA. Programs meant to strengthen favorable ties with tribes and local populations in the third world was cut completely. But despite this near sighted behavior on behalf of Republicans and Democrats alike, Democrats made matters worse by veering from crisis to crisis on the back of the U.S. military. We were under manned, under trained and over tasked for the new "World Disorder." And even worse than this was the CIA, which was extremely successful during the Cold War, but was not made to face off with tribal threats in the absence of a single national enemy. And how did they deal with this? The consequence of a smaller overall military and bewildered CIA was that many military and intelligence tasks were outsourced to private contractos, who often operated outside the bounds of proper accountability. (Years later, Bush would be blamed for this as if he made this mess, but in all fairness, were it not for 9/11 the status quo would have been maintained.)

Now, this next phase (post-Cold War) saw the third world start to erupt and every where an American boot touched the ground was a former European colony set free, which was maintained throughout the Cold War by the America/Soviet struggle. Iraq invades Kuwait. Yugolsavia could have exploded into something that threatened to cross borders. The HOA was/is a location of great interest because of the international trade route and this area host the nations of Somalia, Ethiopia, and Sudan. Religion in Sudan and warlords and starvation in Ethiopia and Somalia can easily turn into bigger problems that knock on our door (piracy).

Though Democrats over used and under-resourced the military for missions that traditionally layed outside the bounds of the national interests, they unwittingly addressed the future. The military started recognizing that humanitarian issues are in the interests of the nation's security. That not dealing with a crumbling African nation can turn into a bigger problem later. That prescribing humanitarian aid towards certain nations in the regions would help to maintain good will and stability towards the populations throughout. President Clinton also recognized this and appointed more power towards the regional commanders (formerly called "CiNCs"). These generals of CENTCOM, SOCOM, PACOM, ....etc., without public scrutiny or knowledge, slowly came to surpass their civilian leaders in resources and influence around the world. The Clinton amdinistration pushed these leaders to adopt a higher diplomatic profile as part of a new military mission to "shape" regional environments. (Then 9/11 happened and all that General Zinni and CENTCOM knew about how to take out and build Iraq was thrown out the window by the Rumsfeld coven.)

Globalization has reared its negative side. People think in terms of financial institutions because of the current economical breakdown and that of 1998 in Asia. But globalization has ensured that borders don't contain a thing anymore. Disease from impoverished nations cross over and travel. Genocide sees victims run into bordering nations causing problems beyond the abusive nation that caused it. The poor economics of one nation and the waste dumping of others in that nation's fishing waters may cause piracy in international waters, which affect free trade. In other words, the small humanitarian issue that is not of "national interests" will eventually become a national interest when the issue is much bigger, more expensive to deal with and far deadlier for the man in uniform.

More often than not, these humanitarian missions are going to be amidst warlords, armed thugs, tribal rages, and rampaging terrorist/tyrannical organizations. The Peace Corps can do very little in terms of dealing with this rabble while securing their own safety and dealing with the humanitarian needs of the population. This is the world we have entered. Democrats discovered it on the backs of the worn out military when Clinton sat upon high and Republicans were rebuking it. Republicans preached about it on the backs of the spread out military when Bush sat upon high and Democrats belly ached over it. The fact that both parties agreed on the issue and fought on the issue depending who was in the White House tends to lend support towards the reality of it.

But what do I know.

Who could tell what you know since I stopped reading when you blamed the democrats for the military cuts made by Reagan and Bush 41. Yeah, our military got really weak under Clinton... :roll:
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

That has nothing at all to do with handing someone a Bible or any other book.



Yes you would. This again has little or nothing to do with handing someone a book.

That has nothing to do with the here and now, nothing at all. It has even less to do with what we are taught by Jesus.

It is amazing how Christianity finally matured, but you seem to still be living in ancient times.

What? try keeping up with the part of the discussion that you're responding to.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Yes you could continue with a very long list of examples which you ignorantly draw upon in rabid blind hate of something you know little about. Yes, you could continue to play the fool and yes, I can continue to laugh at you.
Again, with no reasonable counter argument you find it necessary to attack. It's what bullys do, but unfortunately for you, I'm not frightened by bullys or their tactics.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Well now this is totally false. Except the part about you being an angry, irrational, and emotional liar.
More ad homs from you eh? Look, I'm not gay so no matter how long you follow me around and no matter how much attention you give me, I'm not going to love you. Sorry, move on. :fly:
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Well, take it however you like, but NJPs and Court Martials happen all the time without your demands for discipline and punishment. Soldiers and Marines that were caught trying to get back weapons from Afghanistan and Iraq for trophies or memorabilia were Court Martialed. And this was without the public outcry for exaggerations and drama.

The same is true for innapropriate behavior of any sort in these countries. Now, those that were handing out Bibles were probably told to "stop it" and thusly escaping the loooong arm of the self-righteous looking to flog them to death for their behavior, but there are bigger problems.
Yeah, but the other side of that coin is, how long do you think the command knew about what was going on in Abu Ghraib before those pictures leaked out? :2wave:

You can't bull**** people who have been in the military, I've seen plenty of things swept under the rug for various reasons.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

So when my Marine friend comes back here to visit he isn't allowed to go proselytize when not in uniform? You honestly think that is true?
:censored Are we talking about a policy for our troops in Afghanistan? Hmm, I think so. :doh

There is no policy against proselytizing in the military unless it becomes disruptive or a PR problem with the civilian population. It would probably fall under the category of "military bearing".
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Then if you do understand the concept, why are you arguing against it?

Childish or not is irrelevant. Perception is reality. We want to be perceived as being there for a specific task, if we are perceived to be insulting or undermining their religion then that will undermine our real task.

Think of it this way, if joe the afghan thinks Americans are proselytizing or trying to convert people to xianity and joe the afghan goes to his tribal leader and says so, do you think joe the tribal leader will be inclined to help the Americans when asked?

My argument has nothing at all to do with anything you are saying. I actually agree with you, and I have stated the same thing earlier in this thread. I am arguing against the stupidity of someone being insulted by being handed a book no matter who they are.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

What? try keeping up with the part of the discussion that you're responding to.

I have. You on the other hand are as usual lost. You did not bother to read what came before and gave a typical knee jerk reaction.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

More ad homs from you eh? Look, I'm not gay so no matter how long you follow me around and no matter how much attention you give me, I'm not going to love you. Sorry, move on. :fly:

Wow. Slippery **** thought this ignorant statement would be funny. Ha, dont worry, Jallman isnt on your tail, get over yourself. :roll:
 
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Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

If it's such a non-story then why don't all of you excuse makers just say - yeah, they aren't supposed to do it and they shouldn't - end of discussion. Instead, people want to argue that it's not that bad or that it's not really happening, et al.


Well, despite it being improper, it is not that bad. But such things are never the end of the discussion. People here are arguing that the "military" shouldn't do such things and that the "military" should not be endorse such things. The argument goes from a few indivuduals behaving badly to the entire military behaving as if on a religious crusade. It's the same self-righteous, self-flaggelation that Westerners do that offers comfort and validity to our enemiss false and exaggerated accusations.

1) They accuse of exaggerated behavior.

2) The ignorant in the West fall all over themselves to be the first to agree that such behavior is bad.

3) The accusers in the Middle East now report on how Westerners also are amiss over such American military behavior.

The non-issue, used to stir the uneducated and ignorant oppressed Middle Eastern masses, now becomes an issue all because Westerners haven't the abililty to step back and place things into perspectives before they run off at the mouth. The worse is when our own media rushes to validate non-issues.

It continues to be a non-story.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Who could tell what you know since I stopped reading when you blamed the democrats for the military cuts made by Reagan and Bush 41. Yeah, our military got really weak under Clinton... :roll:

The fact is that Bush started the cuts and the cut backs in the post Cold War era. Clinton continued this behavior even as he exhausted the under funded military from one crisis to another and embarked on the notion that contracting out was best for the military and our defense. The ironic thing is that people assumed that Clinton's defense spending went towards the military instead of the corporations who were building high tech toys the military didn't need. Bush Jr. was well into continuing this behavior until 9/11.

These are the facts. If you weren't so eager to protect Democrats as if you owe something to them then you would have realized that this is a Washington thing...not an individual President thing. Perhaps if I mentioned "Republican" when I spoke of Bush or pretended that 8 years of the last decade wasn't under a Democratic President, but really a secret Republican President, you would have enjoyed your partisan position more.

You want to be a Democrat? Own its negative side too.
 
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Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Yeah, but the other side of that coin is, how long do you think the command knew about what was going on in Abu Ghraib before those pictures leaked out? :2wave:

You can't bull**** people who have been in the military, I've seen plenty of things swept under the rug for various reasons.

Who's bull ****ting? Things get swept under the rug in every arena and in every organization. This Bible issue will get swept as the offenders are told to stop. There will be no Court Martials and no NJPs over this. Oversight exists and the fact remains that this was an individual issue, not an organizational mission. You are arguing for the sake of arguing.

As for Abu-Ghraib, this is what we get for putting the Army Reserve National Guard in charge of anything outside our borders. Civilians in uniform (far from actually being "the military") were to blame. They should have never been in that position and they were removed as soon as military people outside the prison became aware (thanks to the pictures). But this is further proof of how things get blown out of proportion by our own Western whiners. Despite the obvious frat party behaviors of those soldiers, their behavior was labeled as "torture." Just like a few Bible issuers are supposed to define a "military" event.


And by the way...you do realize that using the childish smilies to wave your ass in people's faces as if you "win" is exactly why you find yourself in negative situations with people don't you?
 
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Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Since you have no reasonable counter argument you resort to ad homs. Typical.

What is there to counter? You present nothing more than rabid hateful opinion that is so far off the mark as to be nothing more than an ill-thought fairy tale. Or a schizophrenic laden fantasy. It's kind of hard to tell the difference with your posts.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

What? try keeping up with the part of the discussion that you're responding to.
ad hom :roll:
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

As for Abu-Ghraib, this is what we get for putting the Army Reserve National Guard in charge of anything outside our borders. Civilians in uniform (far from actually being "the military") were to blame. They should have never been in that position and they were removed as soon as military people outside the prison became aware (thanks to the pictures). But this is further proof of how things get blown out of proportion by our own Western whiners. Despite the obvious frat party behaviors of those soldiers, their behavior was labeled as "torture." Just like a few Bible issuers are supposed to define a "military" event.

Do you not understand that the activity documented in the Abu Ghraib photos was ordered by the White House, then covered up when the photos became public?
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Do you not understand that the activity documented in the Abu Ghraib photos was ordered by the White House, then covered up when the photos became public?
:eek:tWhat's the topic have to do with this?
 
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