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U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanistan

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

GySgt didn't we have a thread a few months ago about Marines handing out some kind of religious token or flyer?


We did. And just like then, I had to argue with people who wanted to paint it as an illegal military action as if it is an agenda or a matter of policy. I am not going to argue what is largely a non-issue to people who seek to make the insignificant significant.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Could you please just try for a little substance?

A thousand pardons.

I am a man of few words. I try to get right to the point immediately. I am unaccustomed to blathering.

I will vacate the thread without further ado.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

If our military allows this to continue it is a bad PR move. Some Muslim moderate and most of the extremists are already hellbent on proving to the world that the West is trying to convert them and is conducting a 21st century style crusade. U.S. soldiers running around trying to convert anyone in that region REGARDLESS of their intentions would be the poster boy for their argument. Not something we want if the goal is still to win 'hearts & minds'.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

We did. And just like then, I had to argue with people who wanted to paint it as an illegal military action as if it is an agenda or a matter of policy. I am not going to argue what is largely a non-issue to people who seek to make the insignificant significant.

You're just differentiating between the military as a whole engaging in illegal military action as opposed to military service folks breaking codes of conduct, right?

As a side bar are military folks allowed or not allowed to wander around in uniform at malls, the movies, etc. This is an argument some friends of mine were having the other day.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Yet the Americans seem to be doing the exact opposite. With all due respect, despite what you say, your military is bringing freedom, and democracy (or at least is trying to). Look at Iraq. Ill give it a few before they start implementing the same policies they did in Iraq to create its democracy there.

Again, I'm not disputing what was sold to us or how we're acting. I'm saying it's not our charge though and that these wars we fight for the freedom of others aren't something we should be fighting; though I do understand that was one of the reasons told to us as to why we had to go. We had to deliver democracy, look where it got us. The longest war in US history, closing in on a trillion dollars, over 4,000 soldiers dead for not the freedom and liberty of America, occupation war which should not be engaged in, etc. I'd rather we just not do it. The Iraqi government still can't stand on its own, try this in Afghanistan and you're just damning us to perpetual war. That's why I say the people of the country must be willing to rise up themselves. If there were say a civil war in Iraq and the resistance movement asked for our help, that would be one thing. I'd have to look at the circumstances and see if I'd really think we still have business going in there. But that would give a stronger argument for it. We can't just run around thinking we can "deliver democracy" to whomever.

First off, that tends to be a BS, emotionalized, political propaganda reason. I don't trust it. If we were so concerned with the downtrodden, we'd have done something about Africa already. But we're not really interested in it. Spreading democracy is a propaganda charge. Second, will it work? We don't even know that. It certainly wasn't like the delusions of grandeur that it appears the previous administration was under. We didn't sweep in and sweep out, leaving a happy happy democracy which survived on its own. Third, it's not our place to deliver democracy. Fourth, I don't think my fellow countrymen should fight and die for the freedom and liberties of others. Selfish, I know; but that's how I personally feel on the matter.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

If our military allows this to continue it is a bad PR move. Some Muslim moderate and most of the extremists are already hellbent on proving to the world that the West is trying to convert them and is conducting a 21st century style crusade. U.S. soldiers running around trying to convert anyone in that region REGARDLESS of their intentions would be the poster boy for their argument. Not something we want if the goal is still to win 'hearts & minds'.

Our military isn't allowing it by any means. They've all ready said it goes against orders, shouldn't happen, and have denied that it has happened. :mrgreen:
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

A thousand pardons.

I am a man of few words. I try to get right to the point immediately. I am unaccustomed to blathering.

I will vacate the thread without further ado.

You're apparently unaccustomed to writing out well thought out and intelligent posts is more like it.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Our military isn't allowing it by any means. They've all ready said it goes against orders, shouldn't happen, and have denied that it has happened. :mrgreen:

Well......alright then?
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

We did. And just like then, I had to argue with people who wanted to paint it as an illegal military action as if it is an agenda or a matter of policy. I am not going to argue what is largely a non-issue to people who seek to make the insignificant significant.

Proselytizing is illegal for the US military, no matter how much you'd like to dismiss it and pretend it isn't.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Aren't there codes of conduct or general orders that prohibit certain behaviors under which the handing out of bibles to foreign locals would be as strictly forbidden as the handing out of porn to same said locals?


No there is not. There are 11 General orders and none are about offending another's culture.

There is however an order, which is passed down from very high and is briefed for every single cultural mingling, that specifies the rules and demands of the host nation. What applies in Somalia does not mirror what applies in Saudi Arabia, which does not mirror what applies in Afghanistan. Therefore, not handing out porn or "Bibles" is a matter of military policy not record. But breaking such policies means that you have broken that order that comes from very high and thusly can be prosecuted under the Uniformed Code of Military Justice.

The reason the military is held to such high standards while abroad is not just because we aren't "God's Army," but because we are ambassadors of our nation. In fact, U.S. leaders in key regions during the late mis '90s increased their own visibility by taking more prominent roles in trying to influence events. President Clinton and President Bush (President Obama will too) referred to these Generals as "superdiplomats" or "proconsuls" because not only did they prove to be more capable after the Cold War when dealing with local populations, their leaders, and their militaries, but that they were in better positions to receive and cipher local intelligence while the CIA recovered from their heart atack suffered when the Cold War ended.

The ambassador image of the military goes fromthe Private with a Spider-man Comic Book to the Pastor with a Bible or a Qu'ran to the Four Star General with diplomatic dispatchings. For this matter alone, I am arguing that people who seek to paint "Bible" issue as some sort of military crime or policy are arguing non-issues.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

You're apparently unaccustomed to writing out well thought out and intelligent posts is more like it.

Cool. My willingness to attempt to abide by the directions of mods is more important than continuing a pointless debate with marginal opponents.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Cool. My willingness to attempt to abide by the directions of mods is more important than continuing a pointless debate with marginal opponents.

I feel sorry for Ikari. Judging from your posts, you seem very "Christian". Any religious politician is a walking, talking hypocrit. :2wave:
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

You're just differentiating between the military as a whole engaging in illegal military action as opposed to military service folks breaking codes of conduct, right?

I am. There is no way this happened as people here are portraying. First, you would have to get a group of soldiers together that believed that passing out some Christian Bibles would make things easier on them in their local position. Second, you would have to find an actual jack-ass willing to organize something against what he knows is counter productive and essentially dangerous to everyone around him.

Are there sermons about Christian duty? Of course. But even though all pastors and priests have a background, they serve as the soldiers shoulder to lean on for spiritual and emotional internal conflicts. They ease tensions and encourage positive frames of mind in an environment where death and destruction is the agenda. They are not there to convert anybody. And the fact that Al-Jazeera is the source of this BS thread, I would point out that Al-Jazeera also ran stories about how Pokiman is the Jews tool to convert Muslims.

People should consider that in a region where religious conversion continues to be a mission of statement, the way to incite the masses against an enemy is to paint a picture where the modern crusade continues under the tyranical flags of Christianity and Judiasm.

As a side bar are military folks allowed or not allowed to wander around in uniform at malls, the movies, etc. This is an argument some friends of mine were having the other day.

Depends on the branch of service and the uniform. If you are a soldier, an airman, or a sailor, you can be as nasty as you want to be. They are authorized to walk down Malls, Wal-Marts, and even upscale their eating habits by passing up McDonalds to enter a Taco Bell (careful of Swine) in their camoflouge utilities and their PT gear. Marines are not. The utility unform is considered a work uniform, which means that mud, grease, and oil travels with you. The PT uniform is made to sweat. Both uniforms do little to show off the military and to serve in an ambassadorial capacity. There was a time when Marines could wear their cammies to get gas and to pick up milk from a corner store for his baby and such, but not any more.

All branches, however, are authorized to wear dress uniforms in public. They are proper recruitment tools and they serves much like a man's business suit. If a man wants to show off his success, he shows up in his business suit and carries himself in a specific manner. The military man (or woman) should do the same.
 
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Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

You're apparently unaccustomed to writing out well thought out and intelligent posts is more like it.

What? Nu-uh. Whatever. Pfft.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

We had to deliver democracy, look where it got us. The longest war in US history, closing in on a trillion dollars, over 4,000 soldiers dead for not the freedom and liberty of America, occupation war which should not be engaged in, etc. I'd rather we just not do it.
So you believe things would be better than they are now and in the future if Saddam was left in power?
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

So you believe things would be better than they are now and in the future if Saddam was left in power?

Lets face it. Americans done the region and Iraq a favour. This exact same method should be approached in Afghanistan. Out with the religious theocracy and in with a new democracy. A countries soviergn is of no importance when they pose a threat to there own people and the region, especially if it abuses human rights (the legalized rape law says it all).
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

I feel sorry for Ikari. Judging from your posts, you seem very "Christian". Any religious politician is a walking, talking hypocrit. :2wave:

I enjoy a good debate. But I am not a politician. What I have found however, is your run of the mill leftists are not able to maintain focused on the topic. They will stray into left field, or fall back to the old standby; insults.

Once they have done that, you know you have defeated them. The rest is just details. :lol:
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Proselytizing is illegal for the US military, no matter how much you'd like to dismiss it and pretend it isn't.

First we have to get over the high and mighty finger pointing. Proselytizing means to induce someone to convert to one's faith. How is the military doing this? And what faith is the U.S. military? Because surely the Muslims and the Hindus in American uniform need to know what they contracted to. I know of no policy, agenda, or training package to spread Christianity.

Get over it.
 
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Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

So you believe things would be better than they are now and in the future if Saddam was left in power?

In what context and on what criteria?

As a traditional obstacle to Iran? Yes.
By not putting us trillions more in debt? Yes.
By not stretching the military? Yes.
By not replacing a secular regime with influenced heavily by a theocracy? Yes.

Bringing democracy and freedom is all good and well, but not when it directly threatens our financial health and the balance of power in vital geographical locations.

Remember that the big winner in the invasion was Iran.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

First we have to get over the high and mighty finger pointing. Proselytizing means to induce someone to convert to one's faith. How is the military doing this?

In the military it's illegal to proselytize, that's the point. There are reports that maybe some individuals within the military did it. It's not the military on the whole doing it, it would be a much different scenario then with orders of magnitude more outrage. But the military made it illegal, any of its troops which engage in it have committed a crime. There is indication that maybe that had gone on with a few individuals within the military; that needs to be investigated.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

I enjoy a good debate. But I am not a politician. What I have found however, is your run of the mill leftists are not able to maintain focused on the topic. They will stray into left field, or fall back to the old standby; insults.

Once they have done that, you know you have defeated them. The rest is just details. :lol:

Well you have to give it to them. At least there accepting of everyone in society, Christian or not, gay or bi, and at least there not crazed killers hell bent on taking the lives of every homosexual, converting every non-christian so that they can join Jesus mighty christian organization of "tax collection to believe in God", and at least they base there debates on factual information instead of sheer "faith". Your the one who believes in an invisible man....makes leftists seem a lot more sane when put into that perspective, right?
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

So you believe things would be better than they are now and in the future if Saddam was left in power?

I don't know. I just don't see it as our problem. Less Saddam was a direct threat to the sovereignty of the United States, which he wasn't.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

I don't know. I just don't see it as our problem. Less Saddam was a direct threat to the sovereignty of the United States, which he wasn't.

With Iran trying to trigger a nucleur warhead race in the ME, i can gaurentee had we have not gone in there, we would have been biting ourselves 10 years from now...and even today, looking back, im glad theres one less dictator regime on this planet, and you know it too.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

I enjoy a good debate. But I am not a politician. What I have found however, is your run of the mill leftists are not able to maintain focused on the topic. They will stray into left field, or fall back to the old standby; insults.

Once they have done that, you know you have defeated them. The rest is just details. :lol:

As I have stated before, I'm not a "leftist". You have offered no argument which wasn't shut down, you resorted to nothing but insult. You haven't added anything significant or coherent to the debate.
 
Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

With Iran trying to trigger a nucleur warhead race in the ME, i can gaurentee had we have not gone in there, we would have been biting ourselves 10 years from now...and even today, looking back, im glad theres one less dictator regime on this planet, and you know it too.

You worried about Africa?
 
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