U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanistan

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Ikari said:

There's another word I'm thinking of for you. You're endorsing illegal actions, end of story.

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I am not convinced our military men and women are guilty of anything.

You people already have them convicted of crimes. So much for innocent until proven guilty.

And you people wail from the highest mountain tops when some terrorist are being held without having their Miranda Rights read to them.

Sickening.

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Ikari said:

That's not the point. The point is that you're endorsing illegal military practices.

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What illegal military practice?

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Ikari said:

A gift is giving water to people in a village, or shoes or something like that. Bible is religious, bible is proselytizing. That is illegal, those whom engaged in it should be punished.

No one assumes the US military is bad, people simply want appropriate action by our military. People with religious agenda seem to have problem with that. If you want to hand out bibles, send missionaries. Do not use the military.

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You can actively practice the religion; you just can't talk about the religion.

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

DamnYankee said:

Prove it!

You are making some very broad assumptions that Al Jeezer, or whatever, is right! What if they are wrong! What if, just IF, they are completely full of crap!

What IF giving a bible IS NOT preaching, as much as the leftists want it to be! What IF it is actually giving a gift?

Why do you people automatically ASSUME the US military are the bad guys AND NOT the good guys?

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It's a controversial gift and not sanctioned by military policy. Members of the on duty serving military should not be handing out bibles or even porn to foreign locals as servicemen and representatives of our country during war. There are codes of conduct that go with the uniform and chaplains have uniforms.

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Ikari said:

No one assumes the US military is bad, people simply want appropriate action by our military. People with religious agenda seem to have problem with that. If you want to hand out bibles, send missionaries. Do not use the military.

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Assuming the US military are guilty of violating a rule which you leftists seem to think they did.

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

DamnYankee said:

I am not convinced our military men and women are guilty of anything.

You people already have them convicted of crimes. So much for innocent until proven guilty.

And you people wail from the highest mountain tops when some terrorist are being held without having their Miranda Rights read to them.

Sickening.

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If they actually handed out the bibles to the native people, then they committed a crime. All indications seem to be that's what happened because the bibles were written in the native tongue of the people of Afghanistan. You are endorsing the handing out of bibles, you claim that it's not a bid deal and that Afghanistan isn't fragile. What you endorse is a crime.

The "are they guilty or not" is not a debate on whether or not it's ok to hand out bibles. The military is expressly forbidden from doing that. The debate is did they hand them out. If they didn't, then there's no crime (though a waste of money as none of them could read those bibles); if they did then there is a crime. But your endorsement of the act of military personnel handing out bibles is an endorsement for crime.

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Ikari said:

If they actually handed out the bibles to the native people, then they committed a crime.

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What crime? What Code of Conduct or Court Martiable offense took place?

You people are running off at the mouth over a non-story.

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

GySgt said:

What crime? What Code of Conduct or Court Martiable offense took place?

You people are running off at the mouth over a non-story.

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GySgt didn't we have a thread a few months ago about Marines handing out some kind of religious token or flyer?

I believe your position was that even if a law wasn't being broken, the Marines shouldn't be handing out religious material since it invites even more violence, and the Marines had enough to deal with already.

I'm hoping your memory is better than mine today.

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

GySgt said:

What crime? What Code of Conduct or Court Martiable offense took place?

You people are running off at the mouth over a non-story.

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CENTCOM's general order No. 1 forbids U.S. soldiers from proselytizing.

A Marine caught handing out coins promoting Christianity to Iraqis in Fallujah about a year ago, infuriating Iraqi leaders, was quickly reprimanded by the U.S. Military.

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U.S. Military Accused of Handing Out Bibles in Afghanistan - Presidential Politics | Political News - FOXNews.com


Now, if it can't be shown that the bibles were handed out, there's nothing anyone can do. That's fine, that's normal process of these things. If the bibles were confiscated before being handed out or something like that; no crime committed. If the bibles were actually handed out, that's a crime because that is proselytizing

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Ikari said:

If they actually handed out the bibles to the native people, then they committed a crime. All indications seem to be that's what happened because the bibles were written in the native tongue of the people of Afghanistan.

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I'm not convinced they handed out bibles, much less bibles in the local lingo. Then again, I support our boys and girls. Next those people they supposedly gave bibles to got married and we bombed the wedding party, but what the hell. Huh?

You are endorsing the handing out of bibles, you claim that it's not a bid deal and that Afghanistan isn't fragile. What you endorse is a crime.

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Prove a crime was committed.

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

GySgt said:

What illegal military practice?

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Aren't there codes of conduct or general orders that prohibit certain behaviors under which the handing out of bibles to foreign locals would be as strictly forbidden as the handing out of porn to same said locals?

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

DamnYankee said:

Prove a crime was committed.

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Wow...daft one. Those comments aren't pointed towards the soldiers. If you hand out a bible to native people and you are active duty military, you have committed a crime. You endorsed the ability of active duty military to be able to hand out bibles to a native people; you endorse a crime. Did an actual crime take place? We have to see, they'll investigate this. If they find that they handed out bibles, they are guilty of crime. If they can not find that they handed out bibles, there is no punishment. But that is separate from your actual endorsement of crime. If I say, all murder is perfectly fine and people should do it; I've endorsed a crime. It doesn't matter if someone goes out and kills someone else or not, I've still endorsed a crime.

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Ikari said:

Wow...daft one. Those comments aren't pointed towards the soldiers. If you hand out a bible to native people and you are active duty military, you have committed a crime. You endorsed the ability of active duty military to be able to hand out bibles to a native people; you endorse a crime. Did an actual crime take place? We have to see, they'll investigate this. If they find that they handed out bibles, they are guilty of crime. If they can not find that they handed out bibles, there is no punishment. But that is separate from your actual endorsement of crime. If I say, all murder is perfectly fine and people should do it; I've endorsed a crime. It doesn't matter if someone goes out and kills someone else or not, I've still endorsed a crime.

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You people ought to spend more time backing our boys and girls and less time convicting them based on foreign propaganda the like of Al Jeezee.

Wow, I can't believe you leftists crap on our military like that.

God Bless our military, God damn you leftists.

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

DamnYankee said:

You people ought to spend more time backing our boys and girls and less time convicting them based on foreign propaganda the like of Al Jeezee.

Wow, I can't believe you leftists crap on our military like that.

God Bless our military, God damn you leftists.

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I'm not convicting anyone. Just saying if it happened as reported it needs to be taken care of and I have the utmost faith that it will be if the report has any merit. This is quite different from a stance that would suggest, "Well even if did happen it's not as bad as beheading folks so who cares," and also quite different form, "Our military is full of bad evil doers and they should be crucified tomorrow."

See?

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

DamnYankee said:

You people ought to spend more time backing our boys and girls and less time convicting them based on foreign propaganda the like of Al Jeezee.

Wow, I can't believe you leftists crap on our military like that.

God Bless our military, God damn you leftists.

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Apparently you don't know what "if" means.

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

DamnYankee said:

God damn you leftists.

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Wow...Jesus and Jeremiah Wright must be awful proud of you right about now. :lol:

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

jallman said:

Wow...Jesus and Jeremiah Wright must be awful proud of you right about now. :lol:

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Jesus wasn't a Black Liberation Theologist. Chances are he would agree with me that our military did nothing wrong. Damning a bad thing, isn't bad.

On the other hand, Wright would crap little puppies. And damn America anyway. :rofl

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Laila said:

I dislike attitudes like this sometimes.
It has the high and mighty feel behind it.
Its the idea that the only way is our way.

I don't care what the Afghans human rights record are, hell. I don't care what they do to their people.
Lets finish the job we have been dragged in to do and get the hell out that god forsaken country before we lose more soldiers.

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Its not our way, its the right way. The socially and morally correct way. Having freedom isnt just part of western culture. Its a dream on a global scale. Its part of everybodies culture by instinct. Its something that everybody wants and should all have. Its something that must be highly valued and encouraged. Its not something that should be ignored, even in the name of soveriegn. Im sorry, but to occupy a country is a huge violation of soviergn anyway. Following and swearing by human rights and freedom isnt that aweful, and that attitude doesnt seem to stink at all. Its high time we stop being hypocrits by going around encouraging human rights when we insist on not practising it abroad. Lets scrap the politically correct BS and acknowledge that yes, this may violate Afghanistans already seriously violated soviereign, but this is not random policy issues, this is human rights.

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

DamnYankee said:

You people ought to spend more time backing our boys and girls and less time convicting them based on foreign propaganda the like of Al Jeezee.

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There was a video where active military personnel had bibles written in the native language (not English) and they were talking about handing them out and how you had to call it "gifts" because otherwise it would be taken a proselytizing. That's not propaganda, that happened; recorded and measured. Now, the military has to figure out if those bibles were ever really handed out. That's it. If they were handed out, a crime was committed; if not then there was no crime. End of story. You're just getting pissed off because it's blatantly clear to everyone and their dog that you were trying to endorse an illegal activity. I'm not going to back the government when it wields its power unethically or illegally. Why should I? If the military acts improperly, that needs to be corrected. End of story. Control of the government, proper action of the government is very important and we must insist that it be followed.

You just want emotional tirades about the enemy and blah blah blah I have to accept something because it happened to be performed by the military. No, if a platoon of our soldiers captured and shot up a bunch of kids (not saying this happened, just making an extreme example) I'd say that's improper and that there needs to be investigation/punishment. I'm not going to accept improper behavior just because through happenstance it came out of our military. There is a code of conduct, there are rules and restrictions, and it is expected that those rules are adhered to; should there be deviation from that it must be punished. That's it, end of story. No trying to endorse illegal activities, no emotional grandstanding. Improper action must be restricted, it must be investigated, and if found true must be punished.

DamnYankee said:

Wow, I can't believe you leftists crap on our military like that.

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No one is crapping on the military. This is appeal to emotion, and a dumb one at that. All that's being said is that there are rules, those rules need to be followed, if it comes to light that rules may have been violated an investigation is warranted, if that investigation turns up anything punishment is warranted. That's it. You're pissed off and crying because it happens to be against an illegal action you endorse, proselytizing through the military. Which is a very stupid, very dangerous practice if aggregated over the whole of the military. It's time to stop being stupid and actually figuring out what's being said here. It's nothing egregious, it's merely holding responsibility and proper action to the government and demanding proper behavior out of our military.

DamnYankee said:

God Bless our military, God damn you leftists.

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Yes yes...god hates fags and all that tripe too. Been to Kansas? You may fit in well there.

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

kaya'08 said:

Its not our way, its the right way. The socially and morally correct way. Having freedom isnt just part of western culture. Its a dream on a global scale. Its part of everybodies culture by instinct. Its something that everybody wants and should all have. Its something that must be highly valued and encouraged.

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While all this is true, IMO, I'd also say that bringing freedom and democracy to others is not our charge. It is the responsibility of the People of a country to come together and fight for their own freedom. Only then can the real burdens of freedom and liberty be realized and fought for and kept. Given freedom will quickly be squandered. And as rightful government can only rightfully rule so long as it has consent of the governed, the only proper government we have influence and control over is the United States government. Other people, they have to worry about themselves and fight for themselves. These things can't generally be delivered.

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

While all this is true, IMO, I'd also say that bringing freedom and democracy to others is not our charge.

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Im talking about NATO personnel, if they want to excercise there basic human rights yet such a thing is illegal in Afghanistan, then forget abiding by that shi*t and do it anyway. Abroad or not, military personnel should have all there human rights protected and given the freedom to excercise such rights, abroad or not.

And Ikari, you say this;

While all this is true, IMO, I'd also say that bringing freedom and democracy to others is not our charge.

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Yet the Americans seem to be doing the exact opposite. With all due respect, despite what you say, your military is bringing freedom, and democracy (or at least is trying to). Look at Iraq. Ill give it a few before they start implementing the same policies they did in Iraq to create its democracy there.

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Ikari said:

There was a video where active military personnel had bibles written in the native language (not English) and they were talking about handing them out and how you had to call it "gifts" because otherwise it would be taken a proselytizing. That's not propaganda, that happened; recorded and measured.

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So all the leftists are full of crap. Got it. Just like I thought. :lol:

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Ikari said:

While all this is true, IMO, I'd also say that bringing freedom and democracy to others is not our charge.

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I disagree. There's much dispute about whether we should ever be engaged in nation building at all. That has yet to stop us.:mrgreen:

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

DamnYankee said:

So all the leftists are full of crap. Got it. Just like I thought. :lol:

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Could you please just try for a little substance?

Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

Laila said:

McDonalds made me gain weight.
Damn you Americans and your burgers and to die for chips.

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If you ever come to Chicago you're in trouble. By the way, McDonalds sucks.