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Thread: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanistan

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    Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    I have no idea what you are talking about. There was no order from the "military" or any civilian in Washington to stack prisoners at Abu Ghraib in pyramids or to point at their genitals.

    YOU......are that Westerner seeking to offer validity to teir bull ****.
    I have no idea what you are talking about. They were told to humiliate them and were shown some things and then left to their own devices... ala - have them softened up when we come back - . The camera and pointing part was just the stupidity of young conservative minds with a lack of proper supervision.

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    Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    All exaggerated BS.
    Of course it is...

    Here is a for instance that you should be able to relate to as a former.....

    In Boot Camp, the recruits are encouraged to attend mass on Sundays. This is not to convert or to shove religion in their faces, but to give the Drill Instructors some time away from their recruits while the recruits relax at least for an hour.
    BS. I don't know when you went to bootcamp or whether or not you were ever a DI but they rotate days off and go home at night, except for the duty NCO who sleeps in the barracks office.

    BUT.....the watchdogs, bloggers, and other worthless type sources will have the world believe that a mass crusade is underway. And the morons will eat it up.
    BUT... the liars will have you believe it's nothing to worry about and their supporters (morons) will eat it up.

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    Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    Who gives a damn? There wasn't a problem when we faced a distinct defined uniformed enemy in Europe. The problem came after the Cold War ended. Not before. And it was father Bush that instituted the military draw down following the Gulf War to accomodate the Democratic/Republican Washington fantasy that "peace" was all that was left after "Democracy won."

    Reagan had nothing to do with the hardships of the military in the post-Cold War.
    More of that revision of the Reagan presidency. I realize that you cons worship at the revised history of the Reagan legacy project (Reagan's Legacy) but some of us were not only alive but in the military when Reagan was in office.

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    Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    Ummmm.....yes.

    It was the Army National Guard Reserve that was in charge of Abu-Ghraib. And after the photos, the active duty Army took over. You can be the partisan stooge all you want, but Bush wasn't there....active duty Marines weren't there.......active duty soldiers weren't there.....there weren't even any civilian contractors their. Only the Army National Guard Reserve is responsible for their frat party foolish and embarrasing behavior.
    Last April when Americans found themselves looking at photographs of U.S. soldiers abusing naked and hooded Iraqis at Abu Ghraib prison, it's a safe bet that most didn't realize they were looking at torture techniques refined by the Central Intelligence Agency over the last half century.

    The Bush administration worked overtime to convince Americans that what they were seeing was the work of a "few bad apples," whom the president said exhibited "disgraceful conduct" that "dishonored our country and disregarded our values."

    Even as late as July, the Army's inspector general, Paul Mikolashek, claimed that "these abuses should be viewed as what they are: unauthorized actions taken by a few individuals."

    A month later, after human rights groups pointed to evidence of much wider culpability, two government reports -- one released by an Army panel chaired by Major Gen. George Fay, the other by a commission headed by former Defense Secretary James Schlesinger -- confirmed what many already sensed: that the abuse went far beyond the seven arrested MPs.

    The 171-page Fay report cites more than two-dozen military intelligence officers, along with several military contractors. It details some 44 incidents, including the stripping, hooding and sodomizing of detainees; subjecting them to temperature extremes; leading them around naked on leashes; and attaching electrical wires to their genitals. In one case, two naked youths were terrorized by snarling, unmuzzled military dogs held by military personnel who competed to try to make the teenagers defecate.
    James Hodge and Linda Cooper: The CIA and Abu Ghraib

    Oops...

    If you wish to blame more (Bush, I'm sure) than the idiots that were there, who by the way disobeyed every rule given to them, then I'm sure you have no problems at all with blaming Obama and accusing him of civilian murder as well since civilians have been killed under his watch.
    Keep digging, the hole isn't big enough yet.

    Of course, this self-righteous blame game of the left to seek out the Commander-in-Chief as the end all be all individual to hang for all misdeeds of individuals faaaaaaar under them.....will not be a game played against the current administration.
    Well the cons are trying but with only a little over 100 days in office, it looks like what it is...

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    Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    Ummmm.....yes.

    It was the Army National Guard Reserve that was in charge of Abu-Ghraib. And after the photos, the active duty Army took over. You can be the partisan stooge all you want, but Bush wasn't there....active duty Marines weren't there.......active duty soldiers weren't there.....there weren't even any civilian contractors their. Only the Army National Guard Reserve is responsible for their frat party foolish and embarrasing behavior.

    If you wish to blame more (Bush, I'm sure) than the idiots that were there, who by the way disobeyed every rule given to them, then I'm sure you have no problems at all with blaming Obama and accusing him of civilian murder as well since civilians have been killed under his watch.

    Of course, this self-righteous blame game of the left to seek out the Commander-in-Chief as the end all be all individual to hang for all misdeeds of individuals faaaaaaar under them.....will not be a game played against the current administration.
    :

    Yes SIR! Anything you say, SIR! I know torture orders came down from the President, and that Reservists were instructed by CIA on exactly what they wanted done to the mostly totally innocent Iraqi prisoners, SIR! I will argue in the face of every single torture memo released SIR!

    Holy ****! You can't make up this ****!

    Everybody defending Bush Rummy and Kissinger (yes Kissinger!) should be
    Thank You Barack Obama for Restoring Honor To The Presidency.
    President Obama will rank as one of our greatest presidents!

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    Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    BS. I don't know when you went to bootcamp or whether or not you were ever a DI but they rotate days off and go home at night, except for the duty NCO who sleeps in the barracks office.
    1992.

    If one single reruit decides not to go to Mass, the Drill Instructor has to baby sit him. This, and the fact that it gives the recruit a chance to get away and relax is exactly why they are 'encouraged" to get the hell out and go to church.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    BUT... the liars will have you believe it's nothing to worry about and their supporters (morons) will eat it up.
    Oh, slope you got me. The great mission to make all military personel Christians has been discovered. It's just a matter of time before we take the next step and don the crosses to crusade our way from Cairo to Islamabad for Jesus.

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    Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    More of that revision of the Reagan presidency. I realize that you cons worship at the revised history of the Reagan legacy project (Reagan's Legacy) but some of us were not only alive but in the military when Reagan was in office.
    This may be a hard pill to swallow for you, but most people do not bathe in the same partisan slavery pool as you. I care as much for Reagan as I do for Clinton, or Bush, or Obama, or Bush Jr., or FDR, or Kennedy or.....

    The fact is that our troubles began to occur the moment father Bush began weakening the military....after the Cold War. And were it not for 9/11, we would be worse still.

    Are you a card carrying Democrat? I'm just curious, because you seem to shed an awful lot of tears when ever somebody dares to speak about them.

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    Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    James Hodge and Linda Cooper: The CIA and Abu Ghraib

    Oops...


    Keep digging, the hole isn't big enough yet.



    I am having a hard time seeing you as anything more than insignificant at this point. "Counterpunch." Really? I wonder if I there's a "Jewish Weekly" or "Chrisitian Agenda" source I can start tapping into. Maybe mix it up with some personal blogs as "proof." Get over it. The dip ****s at Abu Ghraib were simply retarded and exercised practices well beyond their mandate. And no matter how hard they try to excuses themselves by accusing others for telling them to behave stupidly, no body told them to stack naked bodies, take pictures, and conduct themselves as if they were pledging Freshmen.

    But I do love how the CIA is tied to virtually every single thing that has ever happened since its creation by those who need there to be more to the story than what was told them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Well the cons are trying but with only a little over 100 days in office, it looks like what it is...
    Oh...so dead civilians under Bush bad. Dead civilians under Obama acceptable or dismissed. Let me guess...it's the military's fault under Obama, but not the military's fault under Bush, who is to accept ultimate responsibility as CiNC.

    Seems to me that your beloved liberals and Democrats are a little uneasy and unhappy about certain matters these days as well. Perhaps its time to step off the partisan stooge bus and gather some perspective grounded in what I like to call reality. President Obama is doing exactly what I expected. I am rather pleased so far. Aren't you pleased with him? But given that you rush to blast Reagan and the "Cons," defend Clinton at all costs, and blast Bush and the "Cons," forgive Obama for continuing Bush policies....you are mostly pleased that "your guy" sits upon high.
    Last edited by MSgt; 05-22-09 at 11:53 PM.

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    Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    :

    Yes SIR! Anything you say, SIR! I know torture orders came down from the President, and that Reservists were instructed by CIA on exactly what they wanted done to the mostly totally innocent Iraqi prisoners, SIR! I will argue in the face of every single torture memo released SIR!

    Holy ****! You can't make up this ****!

    Everybody defending Bush Rummy and Kissinger (yes Kissinger!) should be

    Some would call this childish. Others, merely nature.

    Oh here it is in the CIA handbook....."stack naked bodies up in pyramid formation for fun." Oh and here it states to..."have sex with married superior and have baby."

    These were idiot civilians in uniform behaving badly. Nothing more. It's not about defending anybody. It's about seeing it for what it is and not invoking exaggeration to cling to crap. And given your avatar, it would appear that you are more interested in the exxageration over the simple truths. What do you say to all those civilains "murdered" under Obama in Afghanistan? Not as delicious when "Bush" isn't in the sentence is it?
    Last edited by MSgt; 05-23-09 at 12:00 AM.

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    Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    1992.

    If one single reruit decides not to go to Mass, the Drill Instructor has to baby sit him. This, and the fact that it gives the recruit a chance to get away and relax is exactly why they are 'encouraged" to get the hell out and go to church.
    You mean the Duty DI has to do his job? EEK!!
    There is always at least one recruit that doesn't go and guess what? The Duty DI still has to be at the barracks, empty or not. So who are you trying to fool, the people here who don't know any better?

    Oh, slope you got me. The great mission to make all military personel Christians has been discovered. It's just a matter of time before we take the next step and don the crosses to crusade our way from Cairo to Islamabad for Jesus.
    You can try to be dismissive by making ridiculous exaggerations but it only makes you look like you've got no argument.

    This may be a hard pill to swallow for you, but most people do not bathe in the same partisan slavery pool as you. I care as much for Reagan as I do for Clinton, or Bush, or Obama, or Bush Jr., or FDR, or Kennedy or.....
    I guess you're right, since you bathe in the partisan slavery pool of neoconservatism.

    The fact is that our troubles began to occur the moment father Bush began weakening the military....after the Cold War. And were it not for 9/11, we would be worse still.
    That's because Reagan made massive military cuts. I remember getting a memorandum to provide a list of personnel under my command suitable for early release/retirement because Reagan wanted a smaller military. You know why he wanted to reduce the size of the military? So he could spend less on people and more on military contractors. By the time Reagan left office he had expanded the U.S. military budget to a staggering 43% increase over the total expenditure during the height of the Vietnam war while creating MASSIVE budget deficits.

    Are you a card carrying Democrat? I'm just curious, because you seem to shed an awful lot of tears when ever somebody dares to speak about them.
    Actually, I'm considered quite moderate outside of the hard-right/hard-left categories we are all put in on this board. I've never registered as a democrat, always as an independent. I even voted for Reagan for his first term (I was a bit more conservative leaning then). How about you? Life long repub... until the shrub years.

    I am having a hard time seeing you as anything more than insignificant at this point. "Counterpunch." Really? I wonder if I there's a "Jewish Weekly" or "Chrisitian Agenda" source I can start tapping into. Maybe mix it up with some personal blogs as "proof."
    Such a transparent tactic. If the source is so unreliable then just attack the facts and prove it instead of making noise to hide your ineptitude.

    Get over it. The dip ****s at Abu Ghraib were simply retarded and exercised practices well beyond their mandate. And no matter how hard they try to excuses themselves by accusing others for telling them to behave stupidly, no body told them to stack naked bodies, take pictures, and conduct themselves as if they were pledging Freshmen.
    Oh so now it's your claim that these US Troops are just retarded dip****s (nice support) who somehow came up with the same techniques used at other interment prisons. You see, the intelligent people can see the difference between the softening up of detainees and the pictures. The ingenuity of the techniques don't quite mesh with the stupidity of the pictures which tells the intellectually honest people which parts the soldiers came up with on their own. Like a cat ****ting in a toilet, you know the cat knows how to **** but it's obvious someone taught it to **** in a toilet.

    But I do love how the CIA is tied to virtually every single thing that has ever happened since its creation by those who need there to be more to the story than what was told them.
    And time after time after time in case after case we find out it's true. The CIA really is involved in most of it.


    Oh...so dead civilians under Bush bad. Dead civilians under Obama acceptable or dismissed. Let me guess...it's the military's fault under Obama, but not the military's fault under Bush, who is to accept ultimate responsibility as CiNC.
    Do you even know what you're responding to? Nice try at changing the subject but you said:

    Of course, this self-righteous blame game of the left to seek out the Commander-in-Chief as the end all be all individual to hang for all misdeeds of individuals faaaaaaar under them.....will not be a game played against the current administration.
    So what dead civilians are your referring to as Obama's fault, in the conversation about torturing detainees? FAIL.

    Seems to me that your beloved liberals and Democrats are a little uneasy and unhappy about certain matters these days as well. Perhaps its time to step off the partisan stooge bus and gather some perspective grounded in what I like to call reality.
    Well it's about time you made a wise decision... welcome to the real world.

    President Obama is doing exactly what I expected. I am rather pleased so far. Aren't you pleased with him? But given that you rush to blast Reagan and the "Cons," defend Clinton at all costs, and blast Bush and the "Cons," forgive Obama for continuing Bush policies....you are mostly pleased that "your guy" sits upon high.
    Poor raving Gunny... it's really hard to argue against facts eh? It's obviously much easier for you to just change the subject and attack.

    Oh here it is in the CIA handbook....."stack naked bodies up in pyramid formation for fun." Oh and here it states to..."have sex with married superior and have baby."
    Oh here it is in the neocon apologists handbook... "make fun of the troops involved and only point to things we have no proof the CIA does."

    These were idiot civilians in uniform behaving badly. Nothing more. It's not about defending anybody. It's about seeing it for what it is and not invoking exaggeration to cling to crap.
    Info:
    The Justice Department memos also buttress the testimony of former Army Sgt. Sam Provance, who served as a military intelligence officer at Abu Ghraib for four months starting in September 2003 and was the only one in such a position to blow the whistle on the cover-up that sought to focus blame for the scandal on low-level military police.

    “While serving with my unit in Iraq,” Provance said in a statement submitted to Congress, “I became aware of changes in the procedures in which I and my fellow soldiers were trained. These changes involved using procedures which we previously did not use, and had been trained not to use, and in involving military police (MP) personnel in ‘preparation’ of detainees who were to be interrogated.

    “Some detainees were treated in an incorrect and immoral fashion as a result of these changes. After what had happened at Abu Ghraib became a matter of public knowledge, and there was a demand for action, young soldiers were scapegoated while superiors misrepresented what had happened and tried to misdirect attention away from what was really going on.”

    As a computer expert working the night shift, Provance came to know many of the interrogators, including a female who “told me detainees were routinely stripped naked in the cells and sometimes during interrogations (she said one man so shamed had actually made a loin cloth out of an MRE (Meal Ready to Eat) bag, so they no longer allowed him to have the MRE bag with his food).
    “She said they also starved them or allowed them to only have certain items of food at a time. She said they played loud music – ‘Barney I Love You’ being the interrogators’ favorite. … She said they used dogs to terrify and torment the prisoners. She also said they deprived them of sleep for long periods of time.”

    Provance said these strategies were “all part of a carefully planned regimen that had been introduced after the arrival of the teams from” the Guantanamo Bay prison facility where detainees from the “war on terror” had been concentrated.

    Provance also recounted a conversation at the Camp Victory dining facility where one military intelligence guard “told an entire table full of laughing soldiers about how the MP’s had shown him and other soldiers how to knock someone out and to strike a detainee without leaving marks. They had practiced these techniques on unsuspecting detainees, after watching, he had participated himself.”

    What is striking about Provance’s account in retrospect are the similarities between the CIA techniques approved by the Bush administration and the treatment of detainees at Abu Ghraib, including the notorious photographs of naked Iraqis paraded in front of female soldiers.

    In both cases, nudity -- especially in front of women -- was used to degrade the prisoners; their diets were manipulated to weaken their resolve (the CIA fed its detainees Ensure); they were deprived of sleep (the CIA hung prisoners by their wrists and used icy water to keep them awake for a week or more); their personal fears were exploited; and they were roughed up in ways designed not to leave marks (the CIA used a technique called “walling,” slamming prisoners repeatedly into a false wall that made a loud noise).

    There were some differences, too. While the Abu Ghraib photos revealed prisoners being piled up in fake sexual positions, the CIA program included the near-drowning experience of “waterboarding” against three “high-value detainees,” including its use 266 times against two detainees, Abu Zubaydah and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.
    Consortiumnews.com

    Oh and try attacking these facts instead of the reporting source this time.

    What do you say to all those civilains "murdered" under Obama in Afghanistan? Not as delicious when "Bush" isn't in the sentence is it?
    Nice try at obfuscation, again. DENIED
    Last edited by Slippery Slope; 05-25-09 at 12:20 PM.

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