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Thread: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanistan

  1. #251
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    Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    GySgt didn't we have a thread a few months ago about Marines handing out some kind of religious token or flyer?

    We did. And just like then, I had to argue with people who wanted to paint it as an illegal military action as if it is an agenda or a matter of policy. I am not going to argue what is largely a non-issue to people who seek to make the insignificant significant.

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    Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Could you please just try for a little substance?
    A thousand pardons.

    I am a man of few words. I try to get right to the point immediately. I am unaccustomed to blathering.

    I will vacate the thread without further ado.

  3. #253
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    Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

    If our military allows this to continue it is a bad PR move. Some Muslim moderate and most of the extremists are already hellbent on proving to the world that the West is trying to convert them and is conducting a 21st century style crusade. U.S. soldiers running around trying to convert anyone in that region REGARDLESS of their intentions would be the poster boy for their argument. Not something we want if the goal is still to win 'hearts & minds'.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    We did. And just like then, I had to argue with people who wanted to paint it as an illegal military action as if it is an agenda or a matter of policy. I am not going to argue what is largely a non-issue to people who seek to make the insignificant significant.
    You're just differentiating between the military as a whole engaging in illegal military action as opposed to military service folks breaking codes of conduct, right?

    As a side bar are military folks allowed or not allowed to wander around in uniform at malls, the movies, etc. This is an argument some friends of mine were having the other day.

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    Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Yet the Americans seem to be doing the exact opposite. With all due respect, despite what you say, your military is bringing freedom, and democracy (or at least is trying to). Look at Iraq. Ill give it a few before they start implementing the same policies they did in Iraq to create its democracy there.
    Again, I'm not disputing what was sold to us or how we're acting. I'm saying it's not our charge though and that these wars we fight for the freedom of others aren't something we should be fighting; though I do understand that was one of the reasons told to us as to why we had to go. We had to deliver democracy, look where it got us. The longest war in US history, closing in on a trillion dollars, over 4,000 soldiers dead for not the freedom and liberty of America, occupation war which should not be engaged in, etc. I'd rather we just not do it. The Iraqi government still can't stand on its own, try this in Afghanistan and you're just damning us to perpetual war. That's why I say the people of the country must be willing to rise up themselves. If there were say a civil war in Iraq and the resistance movement asked for our help, that would be one thing. I'd have to look at the circumstances and see if I'd really think we still have business going in there. But that would give a stronger argument for it. We can't just run around thinking we can "deliver democracy" to whomever.

    First off, that tends to be a BS, emotionalized, political propaganda reason. I don't trust it. If we were so concerned with the downtrodden, we'd have done something about Africa already. But we're not really interested in it. Spreading democracy is a propaganda charge. Second, will it work? We don't even know that. It certainly wasn't like the delusions of grandeur that it appears the previous administration was under. We didn't sweep in and sweep out, leaving a happy happy democracy which survived on its own. Third, it's not our place to deliver democracy. Fourth, I don't think my fellow countrymen should fight and die for the freedom and liberties of others. Selfish, I know; but that's how I personally feel on the matter.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    If our military allows this to continue it is a bad PR move. Some Muslim moderate and most of the extremists are already hellbent on proving to the world that the West is trying to convert them and is conducting a 21st century style crusade. U.S. soldiers running around trying to convert anyone in that region REGARDLESS of their intentions would be the poster boy for their argument. Not something we want if the goal is still to win 'hearts & minds'.
    Our military isn't allowing it by any means. They've all ready said it goes against orders, shouldn't happen, and have denied that it has happened.

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    Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

    Quote Originally Posted by DamnYankee View Post
    A thousand pardons.

    I am a man of few words. I try to get right to the point immediately. I am unaccustomed to blathering.

    I will vacate the thread without further ado.
    You're apparently unaccustomed to writing out well thought out and intelligent posts is more like it.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Our military isn't allowing it by any means. They've all ready said it goes against orders, shouldn't happen, and have denied that it has happened.
    Well......alright then?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    We did. And just like then, I had to argue with people who wanted to paint it as an illegal military action as if it is an agenda or a matter of policy. I am not going to argue what is largely a non-issue to people who seek to make the insignificant significant.
    Proselytizing is illegal for the US military, no matter how much you'd like to dismiss it and pretend it isn't.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  10. #260
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    Re: U.S. soldiers encouraged to spread message of their Christian faith in Afghanista

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Aren't there codes of conduct or general orders that prohibit certain behaviors under which the handing out of bibles to foreign locals would be as strictly forbidden as the handing out of porn to same said locals?

    No there is not. There are 11 General orders and none are about offending another's culture.

    There is however an order, which is passed down from very high and is briefed for every single cultural mingling, that specifies the rules and demands of the host nation. What applies in Somalia does not mirror what applies in Saudi Arabia, which does not mirror what applies in Afghanistan. Therefore, not handing out porn or "Bibles" is a matter of military policy not record. But breaking such policies means that you have broken that order that comes from very high and thusly can be prosecuted under the Uniformed Code of Military Justice.

    The reason the military is held to such high standards while abroad is not just because we aren't "God's Army," but because we are ambassadors of our nation. In fact, U.S. leaders in key regions during the late mis '90s increased their own visibility by taking more prominent roles in trying to influence events. President Clinton and President Bush (President Obama will too) referred to these Generals as "superdiplomats" or "proconsuls" because not only did they prove to be more capable after the Cold War when dealing with local populations, their leaders, and their militaries, but that they were in better positions to receive and cipher local intelligence while the CIA recovered from their heart atack suffered when the Cold War ended.

    The ambassador image of the military goes fromthe Private with a Spider-man Comic Book to the Pastor with a Bible or a Qu'ran to the Four Star General with diplomatic dispatchings. For this matter alone, I am arguing that people who seek to paint "Bible" issue as some sort of military crime or policy are arguing non-issues.

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