View Poll Results: In regard to Lynddie England and Charles Grainer....

Voters
18. You may not vote on this poll
  • Not guilty. Let them go.

    3 16.67%
  • Guilty. Keep them in jail.

    8 44.44%
  • Not guilty. They only followed orders. Let them go, but prosecute their superiors.

    1 5.56%
  • Guilty, and so are their superiors. Prosecute superiors too.

    0 0%
  • Not guilty, but administration is guilty. Prosecute Bush administration.

    1 5.56%
  • Not guilty. Superiors not guilty. Prosecute Bush administration.

    1 5.56%
  • Guilty. Superiors guilty. Bush administration guilty. Prosecute them all.

    3 16.67%
  • Don't know / No opinion.

    1 5.56%
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Thread: Abu Ghraib Guards Say Memos Show They Were Scapegoats

  1. #11
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    Re: Abu Ghraib Guards Say Memos Show They Were Scapegoats

    I voted not guilty let them go.

    What took place at Abu Ghraib is nothing more than what can be found happening at frat houses across the country.
    Pain can be such a beautiful thing

  2. #12
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    Re: Abu Ghraib Guards Say Memos Show They Were Scapegoats

    The Nuremberg argument is not germaine to this debate as Lynndie tortured no one (wasn't even a guard, she was visiting her boyfriend). I'm sorry, but I don't think that posing in a picture is like gasing people like the Nazi enlisted did. Yes, they were following orders. Graner was commended many times by CI and MI interrogators for his ability to "soften" detainees up prior to interrogation. I'm actually not a big fan of Charles "Chuck" Graner, but I do believe he is a scapegoat and should be set free.

    There is more to the story of those pictures than the public has been allowed to learn, but it will be coming out in the next few weeks.

    Additionally, how many enlisted personnel do you know who will buck a command? It just isn't done. Yes, Karpinski was not allowed to go into the hardsite as it was under the control of MI. Her rank should be restored as well.

  3. #13
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    Re: Abu Ghraib Guards Say Memos Show They Were Scapegoats

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Abu Garib was a different situation and you know it.
    Dana asking people to judge this situation based on a news article. ****ing ignorant.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  4. #14
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    Re: Abu Ghraib Guards Say Memos Show They Were Scapegoats

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Uh, the Bush memos on the waterboarding?

    No. That has nothing to do with the two of them. And they weren't convicted of torturing anyone. Sloppy, inflammatory language like that does not serve the cause of the truth. And you want to serve the truth, don't you?
    The answer to your question is NO. When it comes to Bush, Dana is a liberal-brained mouthfoamer.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  5. #15
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    Re: Abu Ghraib Guards Say Memos Show They Were Scapegoats

    I somewhat doubt these "rules" will apply to the Messiah of Obamaland.


    In fact if anything similar in anyway occurs..watch Obama "Never notice" and give us a speech about the grooming benefits of lawn gnomes.


  6. #16
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    Re: Abu Ghraib Guards Say Memos Show They Were Scapegoats

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Lynddie England and Charles Grainer, found guilty and sentenced to prison for torturing prisoners in Iraq, are filing new appeals in light of the Bush Torture Memos coming into the public domain.

    Now here is the problem -

    1) Both Abu Ghraib guards are being punished for following what they considered to be lawful orders. Now I realize that "following orders" is not an excuse, and this argument did not get Nazi death camp guards off the hook. But their direct superiors were also prosecuted, Hitler's staff was prosecuted, and Hitler himself would have been prosecuted, has he not committed suicide. The difference here is that those who ordered England and Grainer to torture their suspects are being let off the hook. The legal argument here is that the torture memos were supposed to absolve participants in torture of criminal charges.

    2) England and Grainer did go beyond the scope of what they were ordered to do, and that should be a big factor in their sentences being upheld. However, part of their orders themselves are considered by many to have been illegal in the first place. If they are punished for following those orders, then shouldn't those who gave the orders also be punished?

    3) The crux of the matter itself - Are the Bush memos smoking guns that the Bush Administration itself authorized illegal acts? There are 2 schools of thought on that - YES and NO. That is the big question which must be answered.

    So let's have a vote.

    Article is here.
    You're kidding right? Is there really any doubt that the Bush memo's contain little resemblance to the illegal acts of these sick perverts?

    The notion that there is any credible connection requires the willing suspension of disbelief.

    The FACT that these morons have been successfully prosecuted and found guilty should be sufficient evidence that they conducted themselves outside of the Army's code of conduct.

    What we have here is another mainstream media attempt to outdo the Star or other gossip journals in sensationalist journalism that hardly resembles anything that could be considered credible.

  7. #17
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    Re: Abu Ghraib Guards Say Memos Show They Were Scapegoats

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    What they were told to do was not in those memos. They were instructed and directed by the CIA to "soften up" the prisoners. They were told how to do this. General Karpinski testified she was not even allowed in the section of the prison by order of Gen. Gonzalez (sp?), her boss. The same group that trained the Gitmo guards were sent to do the same at Ghraib.

    Those soldiers were not even MPs. They shouldn't have had anything to do with those prisoners. But, that's Rumsfeld's doing!

    This has all been in the news, magazines, books and interviews. I think some of you only spit up what O'reilly and the Mannity and BushCo say. Most of you wouldn't believe Bush and his thugs did any of what they are accused of "EVEN" if you saw it with your own eyes!
    Do you NEVER require any facts to make your lunatic assertions? Good lord dude, such ranting is a topic for the conspiracy forums and not here.

  8. #18
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    Re: Abu Ghraib Guards Say Memos Show They Were Scapegoats

    Do they claim Charles was ordered to knock Lynddie up over there too?

  9. #19
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    Re: Abu Ghraib Guards Say Memos Show They Were Scapegoats

    They will get acquitted this time! First time around the gov't refused to disclose documents which proved that they were under orders. Also, maybe the prison's ex-commander (I forget her name) will be allowed to testify. At the same time, if we're lucky, maybe the biggest cowards of all will get their due credit.
    Thank You Barack Obama for Restoring Honor To The Presidency.
    President Obama will rank as one of our greatest presidents!

  10. #20
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    Re: Abu Ghraib Guards Say Memos Show They Were Scapegoats

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Do they claim Charles was ordered to knock Lynddie up over there too?
    Sorry my bad I gave that order.....

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