Iran executes 22 year-old

jamesrage · May 8, 2009

Degreez said:
Death penalty cases in the US are much more expensive than life imprisonment cases. And most murderers get life without eligibility for parole if they are not tried for capital murder and punishment.

Scumbag sympathizers have made it more costly. It still does not change the fact that a life sentence means that every tax payer including the victim's families and loved ones are still supporting these scumbags for the rest of their lives.Every doctor visit,every meal,all their entertainment and eduction, their security,their rat layers, and anything else we are still paying for. The solution is to make it cheaper.

That means these people won't be released back into society and it's cheaper to keep them imprisoned till they rot than it is to go through with a lengthy execution appeal.

They can still harm other inmates, prison guards and other prison staff and there is a chance they can escape or receive a pardon.

jamesrage · May 8, 2009

Coolguy said:
Interesting.
More speculation (irrelevant at that) in response to me pointing out you were speculating.
Doh! :doh

And what didn't you get about people claiming that they have committed crimes that they haven't?

Neither claim has any bearing on whether or not this girl's claim is true.
Nor is your claim above, a reason to simply dismiss hers.

It's like you are saying the following.

That way of thinking is convoluted.
It's like saying;

It shows clear bias and prejudice.

I am saying it all depends on the evidence.
Which is something the record available to us in this case is lacking.
Both which are things that you seem unable to comprehend.

Criminals lie all the time to get out their punishments. This is normal criminal behavior no matter what part of the world a criminal is in. So what there are crazies out there who confess to crimes they didn't do. We are all aware that they jail and execute people for measly **** in the middle east, it does not validate the claims of a criminal.

The claims of the lawyer is a reason to look and see whether or not she indeed did receive a fair trial.

The delusion lays with yourself.
I have never made the claim that criminals do not lie, nor would I.
Nor would I make a claim that police, prosecutors and the general public, do not lie.
Again the claims of a criminal are not proof of anything.Nor is it proof their justice screwed her.It seems your convinced that because the middle eastern justice system executes women for measly **** then somehow they must have falsely accuse her of murder.

As for lawyers claiming,"some sort of bull **** to help their client weasel out of punishment". [

Your view is extremely jaded.
Legal arguments are not bs if founded in the law.

What I am saying is that you have no evidence to say that they got it right in this instance, or that her claim was bs.
Your words in regards to this were nothing but speculation.
What I am saying is what I already said:

The claims of lawyers are not proof of anything. A lawyer is going to do any and everything they can to get their client off the hook. Their word has as much validity as a convicted murderer's word,which is zilch.

You have already been shown that you are wrong with examples given.

Click to expand...

You have not proven anything.

First Thought · May 8, 2009

jamesrage said:
That is nothing but scumbag sympathizing drivel.

This is nothing but ignorance. See? I have an opinion, too.

Oh the poor wittle serial kiwwers and murderwer shouldn't be executed its not right that we take their lives, we should force millions of tax payers to support these poor people for the rest of their lives and perhaps if they been good enough we can release these people back into society.

You realize that it costs more to kill them then keep them alive, right? Or are you just being uninformed again?

What a load of ****en garbage. You people have as much regard for the victims of these scum as the scum or maybe even less.

God, you are more emotional than most democrats. How about formulating a factual argument rather than getting worked up? :2wave:

Ikari · May 8, 2009

jamesrage said:
Scumbag sympathizers have made it more costly. It still does not change the fact that a life sentence means that every tax payer including the victim's families and loved ones are still supporting these scumbags for the rest of their lives.Every doctor visit,every meal,all their entertainment and eduction, their security,their rat layers, and anything else we are still paying for. The solution is to make it cheaper.

To make the death penalty cheaper, what has to be done is to make from jury to coffin more efficient. Meaning that one can get convictions with the death penalty easier and with less resource (just proving a death penalty case takes more money than merely pursuing jail time), limiting appeals, and expediting the execution of criminals. The whole of this has the overall result that it will capture more innocent people. You're not going to make the system smarter by trying to make it go faster, you're merely trying to save a few bucks and still be able to kill people. But as you decrease dollars spent on the system, you increase innocent life which is spent on the system. That's innate to trying to make it more efficient. To cut costs you remove some of the safeguards in place which were meant to keep as many innocent people out as possible. It's not something I think is particularly good. And even as the system as is, when Illinois did their audit of death row and put the moratorium on the death penalty, it was found that near half the people on death row were there for a crime they didn't commit. I don't find those to be acceptable odds. Instead, I think it's best to just nix the whole of the death penalty and stick with life in prison without chance of parole. Innocent people will always get caught up, that number can't be zero. But killing them certainly takes away from being able to release someone should the State have found an error. It's best just to side with life on this one. Cheaper and you don't kill anyone.

If anything, we should be looking over our rules in this country and trying to figure out why 1/3 of our population will sometime in their lifetime spend time in jail. We seem big on this jailing thing and we should try to find the cause and maybe try to alleviate that a bit. I, for one, would throw out all the non-violent drug offenders from jail. Tell them they don't have to go home, but they can't stay in jail.

Truth Detector · May 8, 2009

danarhea said:
Iran just executed a 22 year old girl for a murder she committed when she was still a minor.

Iran is way out there in their punishments, but just when you think it couldn't get any worse, Iran becomes like Texas. :mrgreen:

Article is here.

I know you are attempting to be funny here; but comparing any US State to a country lacking even basic human rights is beyond the pale don't you think?

By the way, from your own source:

As of yesterday, 20 states, including Virginia, permitted the death penalty for offenders younger than 18. That is five fewer than allowed the practice in 1989.

Do you even READ your own sources? :roll:

Truth Detector · May 8, 2009

Once again we debate the Death Penalty in this country so I will once again throw in my two cents worth;

My only fear with rescinding the Death Penalty is the idea that murderers will be allowed back onto the streets. If I could be assured that the LAW will not feel sorry for despicable thugs who commit murder or attempt to commit murder will NEVER get out of Prison, I am fine with rescinding it forever as that is what a civilized country should do.

But without this guarantee to the citizens and victims of this country, it is unlikely there will be a large movement to ban the act.

Too many times, guilty parties have been “reformed” and returned to society only to commit another act of murder. The loss of an innocent life because society failed to protect them is worse, in my opinion, than the possibility that an innocent person accused of murderer may have been put to death.

Our legal processes are just too complex, protections too great and the time it now takes to execute someone so long, it is fairly difficult to believe that in TODAYS world, innocent people are being executed.

Coolguy · May 21, 2009

jamesrage said:
Criminals lie all the time to get out their punishments. This is normal criminal behavior no matter what part of the world a criminal is in.

Your preconceived biases have no place in debate.
Nor should your preconceived biases be used to ascertain the veracity of a claim.
The vast majority of those charged with committing a crime admit to committing a crime.

jamesrage said:
So what there are crazies out there who confess to crimes they didn't do.

You really do not understand the point I made, do you? :shakes.head.&.sighs:

jamesrage said:
We are all aware that they jail and execute people for measly **** in the middle east, it does not validate the claims of a criminal.

The way women are treated in that country is reason enough to look further into the claims being made.

jamesrage said:
The claims of lawyers are not proof of anything.

And again.
The claims of the lawyer are a reason to look and see whether or not she did indeed receive a fair trial.

jamesrage said:
A lawyer is going to do any and everything they can to get their client off the hook.

Another preconceived bias. :roll:

jamesrage said:
Their word has as much validity as a convicted murderer's word,which is zilch.

Yet another preconceived bias.
Your word has has the same validity as another person, whether they are a lawyer or convicted of murder. What matters is if the information that a person's word is based on, is accurate/true/factual.

jamesrage said:
You have not proven anything.

:doh
I provided examples where no sympathy was required.
What don't you get about that?

Jerry · May 21, 2009

danarhea said:
Iran just executed a 22 year old girl for a murder she committed when she was still a minor.

Iran is way out there in their punishments, but just when you think it couldn't get any worse, Iran becomes like Texas. :mrgreen:

Article is here.

I support trying 17 year olds as adults.
I support the death penalty.
Where Iran got it right by not leaving her on death row for 20 years, they got it wrong by not informing her lawyer 48 hours in advance.

Rodney · May 21, 2009

Jerry said:
I support trying 17 year olds as adults.

I support the death penalty.

Where Iran got it right by not leaving her on death row for 20 years, they got it wrong by not informing her lawyer 48 hours in advance.

Thanks for the article.... This one sounds like it should have been allowed an appeal, to look a little closer at the boyfried, in a society that still burns women at the stake for suspicions of unacceptable behavior. :shock:

Coolguy · May 21, 2009

Rodney said:
... to look a little closer at the boyfried, ...

His word is valued twice that of hers, so I don't know if that would matter that much.

What I would have like to have seen was some forensics on the knife wounds. Depth, angle of attack, etc...
It would have given us a much better insight into whether or not she actually committed the crime, or her boyfriend, who reportedly only got ten years as an accessory.

Maxientius · May 21, 2009

Anyone care to explain why this suprises anyone or why we are even debating something (refering to an un-natural death in the Middle East) that happens daily?

Also, please do not crush me with insults or facts. This is a simple question that i ask you give a simple answer.

jamesrage · May 22, 2009

Coolguy said:
Your preconceived biases have no place in debate.
Nor should your preconceived biases be used to ascertain the veracity of a claim.
The vast majority of those charged with committing a crime admit to committing a crime.

You really do not understand the point I made, do you? :shakes.head.&.sighs:

The way women are treated in that country is reason enough to look further into the claims being made.

And again.
The claims of the lawyer are a reason to look and see whether or not she did indeed receive a fair trial.

Another preconceived bias. :roll:

Yet another preconceived bias.
Your word has has the same validity as another person, whether they are a lawyer or convicted of murder. What matters is if the information that a person's word is based on, is accurate/true/factual.

:doh
I provided examples where no sympathy was required.
What don't you get about that?

You ignoring reality is not proof of anything. The reality is lawyers in general will try to come up with anything they can to get their client off the hook,some could argue that is part of their ethics. You don't have to go to another country see that,watch the news to see where someone got off due to a technicality. You claim that people confess to crimes they didn't commit yet you ignore the fact criminals lie all the time to save their ass and that lawyers do the same thing to aid their client. The fact a lawyer and a criminal are claiming innocents is not proof of anything.

The fact women are treated like property and executed for crimes other than murder such as pissing off religious people does not in any shape or form mean they convicted this woman for a crime she did not commit. If they really wanted this woman I am pretty sure a country that executes people for pissing off religious people can find something other than murder to execute her for.

jamesrage · May 22, 2009

Maxientius said:
Anyone care to explain why this suprises anyone or why we are even debating something (refering to an un-natural death in the Middle East) that happens daily?

Also, please do not crush me with insults or facts. This is a simple question that i ask you give a simple answer.

Do you think this journalist would have had her sentence suspended if people in other countries didn't say anything?
U.S. journalist freed in Iran heads home - Iran- msnbc.com

Coolguy · May 25, 2009

jamesrage said:
You ignoring reality is not proof of anything.

:spin:
Sorry, not happening on my part.
You apparently are choosing to use preconceived biases to base your opinion on, that is ignoring the reality of the situation.

jamesrage said:
The reality is lawyers in general will try to come up with anything they can to get their client off the hook,some could argue that is part of their ethics.

You are incorrect. They just can't come up with anything.
That is a preconceived bias that you hold.

jamesrage said:
...watch the news to see where someone got off due to a technicality.

Technicalities do not happen very often.
And what you are calling a technicality, is in fact, the law.

jamesrage said:
... and that lawyers do the same thing to aid their client.

Another fine example of your preconceived bias.

jamesrage said:
... yet you ignore the fact criminals lie all the time to save their ass...

I have ignored no such thing.
I have pointed out to you that criminals tell the truth all the time also.
Neither of these is a reason to prejudge whether or not they are telling the truth.
It is the evidence that matters.

jamesrage said:
You claim that people confess to crimes they didn't commit ...

And they do.
I used it as a way to expose the value of your preconceived bias, which is zero, and to point out that it is the evidence that matters.

jamesrage said:
The fact a lawyer and a criminal are claiming innocents is not proof of anything.

I have never claimed it was "proof".
Her claim is evidence, and a reason to look further into the case.
The lawyers claim is an additional reason to look further into the case.

But for some reason you do not understand this and simply dismiss their claims because you hold a preconceived bias that all criminals and lawyers are liars.

jamesrage said:
The fact women are treated like property and executed for crimes other than murder such as pissing off religious people does not in any shape or form mean they convicted this woman for a crime she did not commit.

I never said they did convict this woman of a crime she didn't commit, did I?
But the way women are viewed and treated is a very real reason to give this case scrutiny.

jamesrage said:
If they really wanted this woman I am pretty sure a country that executes people for pissing off religious people can find something other than murder to execute her for.

It appears they did just fine with this case, while only giving the accessory to the crime (a male) 10 years.

Vader · May 26, 2009

SgtRock said:
Dan I think your comparison to Texas is a bit disingenuous. Iran executes women and girls for having sex outside marriage. Homosexuals simply for being homosexuals, Apostates for converting from Islam to Christianity, etc. It is not fair to compare Texas to the evil theocracy of Iran.

Iran is run by religious zealot assholes. ... Texas is too! The only difference is the religion and the blind adherence to it.

Also.... Texas is civilized ... at least compared to Iran.

Iran's government has long needed to be destroyed.

Texas' government has long needed to pull their head out of their ass.

ReverendHellh0und · May 26, 2009

danarhea said:
That is a red herring you just posted. The girl had committed murder.

conspiracy to commit murder, murder, to steal wealth from another at 17.

malice aforethought, planned and executed murder. an arbritrary age of 17 does not really play a factor here. why did i have to look at the article to find out she wasn't 12 when she did this?

don't do the crime, if you aint willing to pay for it.

rhinefire · May 26, 2009

danarhea said:
Iran just executed a 22 year old girl for a murder she committed when she was still a minor.

Iran is way out there in their punishments, but just when you think it couldn't get any worse, Iran becomes like Texas. :mrgreen:

Article is here.

Texas is a state of many paths, roads and highways, why not choose one and leave?

rhinefire · May 26, 2009

Vader said:
Iran is run by religious zealot assholes. ... Texas is too! The only difference is the religion and the blind adherence to it.

Also.... Texas is civilized ... at least compared to Iran.

Iran's government has long needed to be destroyed.

Texas' government has long needed to pull their head out of their ass.

Colorado, famous for......................ah, nothing I reckon.

First Thought · May 26, 2009

Vader said:
Iran is run by religious zealot assholes. ... Texas is too! The only difference is the religion and the blind adherence to it.

Also.... Texas is civilized ... at least compared to Iran.

Iran's government has long needed to be destroyed.

Texas' government has long needed to pull their head out of their ass.

Care to support your argument, or are you content with just spewing nonsense?

Iran executes 22 year-old

jamesrage

jamesrage

First Thought

Ikari

Truth Detector

Truth Detector

Coolguy

Jerry

Rodney

Coolguy

Maxientius

Member

jamesrage

jamesrage

Coolguy

Vader

ReverendHellh0und

I don't respect you.

rhinefire

rhinefire

First Thought