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Thread: Religious tend to support torture more often

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    Re: Religious tend to support torture more often

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    “When the religion of a people is destroyed, doubt gets hold of the higher powers of the intellect and half paralyzes all the others. Such a condition cannot but enervate the soul, relax the springs of the will, and prepare a people for servitude. When there is no longer any principle of authority in religion any more than in politics, men are speedily frightened at the aspect of this unbounded independence. Despotism may govern without faith, but liberty cannot. Religion is much more necessary in democratic republics than in any others. How is it possible that society should escape destruction if the moral tie is not strengthened in proportion as the political tie is relaxed?”
    I absolutely disagree with this entire quote. It's a very lowly look at mankind that gives humanity zero credit. Crackpot theory in my opinion.

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    Re: Religious tend to support torture more often

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    I absolutely disagree with this entire quote. It's a very lowly look at mankind that gives humanity zero credit. Crackpot theory in my opinion.
    You have to look past the quote as not representing just religion as it was not offered in that way by the op.

    Look at it in context and you have a whole new meaning outside of just religion.

    "It is not religion per se, it is shared belief systems on such things as ethics, spirituality and metaphysics. These are imbibed to the individual through the small-scale associations of everyday life to a significant degree which when healthy help to socialise him to the larger goals of society. There doesn't have to be anything inherently religious in these although they tend to end up that way.

    If this is missing then it will bring discomfort to the individual(such as anomie; see Durkheim's On Suicide.), he will look for ways out or for something to stamp that a shared belief system onto society. But this will not be an organic one that has grown up over centuries and relies on the coordination of the many small-scale associations in society, it will be a top down one that imposes itself on these associations. That is what De Tocqueville realised when he said:
    - Wessexman
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    Re: Religious tend to support torture more often

    Quote Originally Posted by FallingPianos View Post
    I'm not sure what to make of that. I'm hesitant to assume religion somehow causes people to support torture.

    I'm more inclined to believe that it has more to do with political affiliation than religion.
    It just so happen however that bullys tend to be republican and so to, evangelical xians. Birds of a feather?

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    Re: Religious tend to support torture more often

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    I suspect who has tortured and mass murdered more people were atheists such as Stalin, Mao, Hitler...

    nice try at supporting religious bigotry though.
    Too bad they didn't do it in the name of atheism.
    Stalin saw the profanity of the church and decided to do away with it so that it couldn't challenge his power.
    Hitler was co-mingling catholicism with the occult.
    Mao killed the majority of his kill list through bad policies that caused massive starvation.
    All of them were fascist tyrants. Fascists believe in the efficacy of torture.

    You failed your history test.

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    Re: Religious tend to support torture more often

    Quote Originally Posted by The silenced majority View Post
    Poll finds broad approval of terrorist torture - Americas- msnbc.com

    hmmmm it seems that there is broad support for "torture" all accross the globe, but hey, never miss a good chance to demonize religious people.
    Mob rule isn't good rule.

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    Re: Religious tend to support torture more often

    I think we oughta waterboard religious people too. Wadda ya say folks?

    It's GREAT to be me. --- "45% liberal/55% conservative"
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    Re: Religious tend to support torture more often

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    What a statement, what a statement.

    The glory of European civilisation is extinguished forever as Burke once commented.

    That's civilization....

    European civilization? Last time I checked I lived in America and not Europe.
    But no matter.
    When people demonstrate they are nothing more then animals they will be treated as such, call me a savage, call me a mindless barbarian I really don't care.
    Let me ask you something, what would you do to prevent attacks on your fellow country men?

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    Re: Religious tend to support torture more often

    Talloulou, not to sweep the rug out from under you, but I agree with what Jerry originally said... although I think I had a different reading of it than you.

    I interpreted it as... people without religion often lack the righteous black/white incentive to condone torture according to their beliefs. Religion provides a pretty clear clut moral compass (i.e. the Bible), whereas if you are not religious you have to actually think for yourself. The non-religious would be given pause at the idea of torture whereas the religious, if their scriptures condone it or even support it, would not have to hesitate because their scriptures decide the issue for them.

    Hence... if you are non-religious the moral issue might be more muddled because some book or higher authority is not making it so black and white.

    In general though, I find religion pretty immoral and the most morally balanced people I have come across have been non-religious.

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    Re: Religious tend to support torture more often

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Talloulou, not to sweep the rug out from under you, but I agree with what Jerry originally said... although I think I had a different reading of it than you.

    I interpreted it as... people without religion often lack the righteous black/white incentive to condone torture according to their beliefs. Religion provides a pretty clear clut moral compass (i.e. the Bible), whereas if you are not religious you have to actually think for yourself. The non-religious would be given pause at the idea of torture whereas the religious, if their scriptures condone it or even support it, would not have to hesitate because their scriptures decide the issue for them.

    Hence... if you are non-religious the moral issue might be more muddled because some book or higher authority is not making it so black and white.

    In general though, I find religion pretty immoral and the most morally balanced people I have come across have been non-religious.
    I guess I could see the merit in that point except that the Bible, like many religious books, is full of contradictions allowing a wide degree of interpretation. I think a person who valued their own inner moral compass above that of a controversial contradictory book would have an easier time just doing what they felt was right vs worrying over deciphering some age old text to find some guidance on a modern age dilemma.

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    Re: Religious tend to support torture more often

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    I guess I could see the merit in that point except that the Bible, like many religious books, is full of contradictions allowing a wide degree of interpretation. I think a person who valued their own inner moral compass above that of a controversial contradictory book would have an easier time just doing what they felt was right vs worrying over deciphering some age old text to find some guidance on a modern age dilemma.
    Right... which is what brings me to the thought that even among the religious there is constant debate over things like torture. It doesn't make sense to me to turn to a holy book for answers when your heart can just as easily tell you the answer. But from Jerry's perspective, the lack of clear-cut guidelines would seem to render the issue more confusing for Atheists. (That is, assuming that they tend to have no guidelines.)

    I personally find the incessant reliance on scripture to determine one's every thought to be an outmoded carry-over from a time when the West was really innocent and didn't know much about the world aside from the idea of God.

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