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Thread: Religious tend to support torture more often

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    Re: Religious tend to support torture more often

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Well quite simply, we can justify it.

    I think it's reasonable to assume that in the absence of religion one has a more muddied ethical sense and would tend to err on the side of caution.

    With a clear ethical sense that religion typically brings, the boundaries are more easily defined and the overbearence of caution isn't necessary.
    I find the premise that absence of religion causes a muddied ethical sense absurd. The further premise that religion typically brings clear ethical sense evokes deep deep belly laughter.

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    Re: Religious tend to support torture more often

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    I find the premise that absence of religion causes a muddied ethical sense absurd. The further premise that religion typically brings clear ethical sense evokes deep deep belly laughter.
    Perhaps if you offered a counter argument there would be something for us to debate.

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    Re: Religious tend to support torture more often

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Perhaps if you offered a counter argument there would be something for us to debate.
    Actually, you made the assertion so the onus is on you to prove it.

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    Re: Religious tend to support torture more often

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Actually, you made the assertion so the onus is on you to prove it.
    Prove what? That that's what I think? Well just read my post and you have proof that that's what I think.

    I didn't claim that my opinion was in fact objectively true, it's just my knee jerk opinion on the matter.

    Care to discuss?

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    Re: Religious tend to support torture more often

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Perhaps if you offered a counter argument there would be something for us to debate.
    My counter argument - though I'm sure it's futile - is that many great atrocities have been committed irrationally in the name of both one and a great many God(s).

    I'd also put forth that one of the greatest most common signs and symptoms of mental instability and psychological failings often is an obsession with religion. Now that's not to say religious folks in general are insane but most always the insane are deeply religious.

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    Re: Religious tend to support torture more often

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post

    Care to discuss?
    You said, "it's reasonable to assume," and then continued on to present not one but two highly debatable premises that most nobody would agree are reasonable to assume unless all logic and reason are tossed out the window at step one.

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    Re: Religious tend to support torture more often

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    My counter argument - though I'm sure it's futile - is that many great atrocities have been committed irrationally in the name of both one and a great many God(s).

    I'd also put forth that one of the greatest most common signs and symptoms of mental instability and psychological failings often is an obsession with religion. Now that's not to say religious folks in general are insane but most always the insane are deeply religious.
    You point out "obsession with religion" and the "deeply religious", indicating that extremists often use any justification for their actions.

    I agree, I just don't think religion is the common denominator.

    Being an extremist is.

    Of course if you are someone who assumes that all torture is extreme, then we part ways right there.

    I not only support justifiable torture, but justifiable homicide (even justifiable abortion).

    Extremists will make just whatever excuse they can, but an excuse is not a valid justification.
    Last edited by Jerry; 05-05-09 at 04:55 PM.

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    Re: Religious tend to support torture more often

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    You point out "obsession with religion" and the "deeply religious", indicating that extremists often use any justification for their actions.

    I agree, I just don't think religion is the common denominator.

    Being an extremist is.
    Sure, I agree. But still, religious delusions and mental illness have a long history of going hand in hand.

    Example:

    BACKGROUND: Religious delusions are clinically important because they may be associated with selfharm and poorer outcomes from treatment. They have not been extensively researched. This study sought to investigate the prevalence of religious delusions in a sample of patients admitted to hospital with schizophrenia, to describe these delusions and to compare the characteristics of the patients with religious delusions with schizophrenia patients with all other types of delusion. METHOD: A cross-sectional investigation was carried out. The prevalence of religious delusions was assessed and comparisons were made between religiously deluded patients and a control group on demographic, symptom, functioning and religious variables. One hundred and ninety-three subjects were examined of whom 24% had religious delusions. RESULTS: Patients with religious delusions had higher symptom scores (as measured by the PANSS), they were functioning less well (as measured by the GAF) and they were prescribed more medication than those patients with schizophrenia who had other types of delusion. CONCLUSION: It is concluded that religious delusions are commonly found in schizophrenia and that by comparison with other patients who have schizophrenia, those patients with religious delusions appear to be more severely ill. This warrants further investigation.
    Religious delusions in patients admitted to hospit...[Soc Psychiatry Psychiatr Epidemiol. 2002] - PubMed Result

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    Re: Religious tend to support torture more often

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Sure, I agree. But still, religious delusions and mental illness have a long history of going hand in hand.

    Example:

    Religious delusions in patients admitted to hospit...[Soc Psychiatry Psychiatr Epidemiol. 2002] - PubMed Result
    So it's your assertion that your typical religious voter who support a slightly greater degree of torture than your typical non-religious voter is obviously suffering from 'religious delusions' which exacerbates their pre-existing schizophrenia?

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    Re: Religious tend to support torture more often

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Well quite simply, we can justify it.

    I think it's reasonable to assume that in the absence of religion one has a more muddied ethical sense and would tend to err on the side of caution.

    With a clear ethical sense that religion typically brings, the boundaries are more easily defined and the overbearence of caution isn't necessary.
    Since an ethical sense has nothing to do with religion, it is the presence of religion that muddies the ethical sense, and the false confidence in its certainty that causes people to ignore common sense and caution. Or perhaps you were being ironic?

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