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Thread: Religious tend to support torture more often

  1. #91
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    Re: Religious tend to support torture more often

    Quote Originally Posted by chevydriver1123 View Post
    When was the last time suing the Federal Government actually worked?
    Was merely making half hearted jokingly funny speculations. I'd have suggested a congressional committee investigate the failures.. but I realized that would be REALLY far fetched
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Religious tend to support torture more often

    It's torture enough to sit through a sermon...

    "All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language...No man is an island, entire of itself...any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee." - John Donne

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    Unhappy Re: Religious tend to support torture more often

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanitas View Post
    It's torture enough to sit through a sermon...

    So far in my church-going experience, it's the Mormon ones that are the longest and most boring ones to attend.
    POLITICS, n.

    A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. The conduct of public affairs for private advantage.

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    Re: Religious tend to support torture more often

    Quote Originally Posted by Nigga NoCa$h View Post
    You mean, kinda like how the (mostly conservative) hawks in this country failed to see how decades of disastrously and cruelly unjust hegemonic American foreign policy could have fueled the desperate hatred and desire for retaliation that lay at the roots of the 9/11 attacks?

    I see you are labeled "very liberal". That's accurate. You're practically a walking cliche.

    If you think that arabic countries, with Muslim governments and law, living under sharia, are morally equivalent to the USA, then go live in one for a year and tell us how you enjoyed it.

    Take the whole family! Your womenfolks can know the joy of not being able to go outdoors without wearing a tent-dress and a veil; of not being allowed to speak to any man they aren't related to without their husband present; in some countries, of being stoned to death for the crime of learning to read.

    Tell them about the joys of atheism! I'm sure they'll be facinated, and you can tell us how they respected your right to free speech... assuming they don't cut off your head.

    (/irony)

    All nations and cultures are NOT morally equal. Has the US made some foreign policy blunders in the mideast over the past several decades? Sure. That doesn't earn us the label of "as bad or worse than the terrorists" that Leftists have been trying to hang on us for years.


    G.

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    Re: Religious tend to support torture more often

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I see you are labeled "very liberal". That's accurate. You're practically a walking cliche.
    Now, now. Let's not be insensitive. He could be a cliche in a wheel chair.

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    Unhappy Re: Religious tend to support torture more often

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I see you are labeled "very liberal". That's accurate. You're practically a walking cliche.

    If you think that arabic countries, with Muslim governments and law, living under sharia, are morally equivalent to the USA, then go live in one for a year and tell us how you enjoyed it.

    Take the whole family! Your womenfolks can know the joy of not being able to go outdoors without wearing a tent-dress and a veil; of not being allowed to speak to any man they aren't related to without their husband present; in some countries, of being stoned to death for the crime of learning to read.

    Tell them about the joys of atheism! I'm sure they'll be facinated, and you can tell us how they respected your right to free speech... assuming they don't cut off your head.

    (/irony)

    All nations and cultures are NOT morally equal. Has the US made some foreign policy blunders in the mideast over the past several decades? Sure. That doesn't earn us the label of "as bad or worse than the terrorists" that Leftists have been trying to hang on us for years.


    G.
    What does that have to do with anything I said?

    That is what we students of logic call a [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man"]straw man[/ame], because you are bringing up something entirely different and placing into the argument and attacking it, rather than actually refuting my assertion.

    And, what does being socially or politically liberal or conservative have to do with acknowledging foreign policy blunders?
    Last edited by Kaiser Katzenjammer; 05-03-09 at 10:09 PM. Reason: Buggy Link in WYSIWYG Editor
    POLITICS, n.

    A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. The conduct of public affairs for private advantage.

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    Re: Religious tend to support torture more often

    Quote Originally Posted by Nigga NoCa$h View Post
    What does that have to do with anything I said?

    That is what we students of logic call a straw man argument or fallacy, because you are bringing up something entirely different and placing into the argument and attacking it, rather than actually refuting my assertion.

    And, what does being socially or politically liberal or conservative have to do with acknowledging foreign policy blunders?
    I'm perfectly aware of what a straw man argument is. My point is that this "we brought it on ourselves" argument begins with an assumption of moral equivalency for all nations and cultures. An assumption that our actions in the mideast were equivalent to terrorist actions against the US, and with it the fundamental assumption that "we're no better than they are", and that US policy justified the 9/11 attacks.

    "We brought it on ourselves" is typically a far-left argument.

    Granted, we made some mistakes. Supporting the Shah of Iran was probably one, but I doubt the Ayatolla Khomeini would have been a US ally even if we'd helped him with his coup. They're just too radical.
    Others who make that argument above often cite our support for Israel as sufficient cause for them to attack us. That's another argument I don't accept; it makes it sound like we should treat an ally and someone who hates us as one and the same.

    The Islamofascists such as Al-Q and Achmadinijahd of Iran have stated their goal many times; it is "to put the entire world under the Caliphate and Sharia." We're non-Islamic and powerful...we would have been in their line of fire sooner or later.

    Anyway, this has wandered way off topic... later.

    G.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

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    Re: Religious tend to support torture more often

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    I suspect who has tortured and mass murdered more people were atheists such as Stalin, Mao, Hitler...

    nice try at supporting religious bigotry though.
    Actually, Hitler was not an atheist. More of a cultist than anything else. He hardly ever gave a speech without quoting scripture. The Nazi regime is a perfect example of what a totalitarian regime can do with religion as a tool to manipulate the masses.

    Stalin was definitely an atheist. Mao more or less believed himself to be a god like figure.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Religious tend to support torture more often

    Religious people are statistically more likely to support torture because evangelicals tend to be conservative and nationalist. Nationalists are much more apt to support the actions of their government when its deemed necessary for defense.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Unhappy Re: Religious tend to support torture more often

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I'm perfectly aware of what a straw man argument is. My point is that this "we brought it on ourselves" argument begins with an assumption of moral equivalency for all nations and cultures. An assumption that our actions in the mideast were equivalent to terrorist actions against the US, and with it the fundamental assumption that "we're no better than they are", and that US policy justified the 9/11 attacks.

    "We brought it on ourselves" is typically a far-left argument.

    Granted, we made some mistakes. Supporting the Shah of Iran was probably one, but I doubt the Ayatolla Khomeini would have been a US ally even if we'd helped him with his coup. They're just too radical.
    Others who make that argument above often cite our support for Israel as sufficient cause for them to attack us. That's another argument I don't accept; it makes it sound like we should treat an ally and someone who hates us as one and the same.

    The Islamofascists such as Al-Q and Achmadinijahd of Iran have stated their goal many times; it is "to put the entire world under the Caliphate and Sharia." We're non-Islamic and powerful...we would have been in their line of fire sooner or later.

    Anyway, this has wandered way off topic... later.

    G.
    I understand what you're saying, and I myself find much of the mores in that part of the world to be horrifyingly barbaric and loathsome, but I'm merely talking about cause-and-effect and am not out to be another person with a rubber yardstick going around measuring everyone's so-called moral standing.

    Besides, I hardly see the ethical standards of a country being a reasonable factor in determining the viability and rationality of my foreign policy, say excusing me to engage in counterproductive and self-defeating foreign policy decisions that cause a lot of misery and bloodshed with a tribe of cannibals and with an enlightened nation of peace-loving and culturally sophisticated librarians and scholars engage in a foreign policy based on respect and cooperation and mutual benefit?

    That certainly makes no sense. Nor does it seem to be particularly consistent or even self-serving.
    POLITICS, n.

    A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. The conduct of public affairs for private advantage.

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