Despite Reports, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Was Not Waterboarded 183 Times

The New York Times reported last week that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the alleged mastermind of the Sept. 11 terror attacks, was waterboarded 183 times in one month by CIA interrogators. The "183 times" was widely circulated by news outlets throughout the world.

It was shocking. And it was highly misleading. The number is a vast inflation, according to information from a U.S. official and the testimony of the terrorists themselves.

A U.S. official with knowledge of the interrogation program told FOX News that the much-cited figure represents the number of times water was poured onto Mohammed's face -- not the number of times the CIA applied the simulated-drowning technique on the terror suspect. According to a 2007 Red Cross report, he was subjected a total of "five sessions of ill-treatment."

"The water was poured 183 times -- there were 183 pours," the official explained, adding that "each pour was a matter of seconds."

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Wait what, 183 POURS?

All of those individual pours were scrupulously counted by the CIA, according to the memos, to abide by the procedures set up for the waterboardings.

"t is important that every application of the waterboard be thoroughly documented: how long each application (and the entire procedure) lasted, how much water was used in the process," read a memo from May 10, 2005.

Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, the only other detainee known to be waterboarded, was not discussed in the memos.

The Times wrote that until the release of the memos, "the precise number" of 286 total waterboardings was not known.

And the precise number of waterboarding sessions is still not known. What is known is that Mohammed was not waterboarded 183 times.

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Despite Reports, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Was Not Waterboarded 183 Times - Presidential Politics | Political News - FOXNews.com

So they were careful to follow guidelines, there were strict uses placed on the water boarding... yeah.

This news is about as shocking as Pelosi claiming she wasn't briefed on the procedures. Hopefully all the memos will be released and we'll get to see Pelosi & Crew sweat a little more.

Little late on this Mr. V. In the main thread that was discussing the initial report and a few other ones it was already revealed that it was 183 pours and extremely ****ty reporting on the side of the journalists.

It doesn't necessarily make it "right", but it paints a FAR different picture then the original story tried to paint, though the above quotes you've put ALSO seem to give an incorrect picture.

"A matter of seconds" for example gives one the impression that its 3, 4 seconds. The report however stated that the pours was anywhere from 10 to 40 seconds. Personally, I don't view 40 as a "matter of seconds".

Also, where it says "not the number of times the technique was used" is also incorrect. Its not the number of SESSIONS, IE periods of time where multiple pours are administered, but each POUR is considered "waterboarding". That IS the technique.

****ty reporting on one side sadly seems to have bred ****ty reporting on the other side.

Classic right wing tactic of denial of the truth...

PeteEU said:

Classic right wing tactic of denial of the truth...

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You gotta be ****ting me right? Really? THAT'S your contribution.

Was it a classic liberal tactic of denail of the truth when the original articles came out and the huffington post implied that he was water boarded for 10 to 20 minute sessions 183 times in a moth despite that obviously not being the truth?

Jesus Christ, I didn't see you bitching in the other thread concerning this about people "denying" the truth or having issues with liberals doing "typical tactics" of over exaggerating something to try and create a larger emotional reaction.

PeteEU said:

Classic right wing tactic of denial of the truth...

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Yes, the Red Cross is such a right wing organization. :doh

From the OP link:

A close look at a Red Cross report on the interrogations makes the numbers even clearer.

As the Red Cross noted: "The suffocation procedure was applied [to Abu Zubaydah] during five sessions of ill-treatment ... in 2002. During each session, apart from one, the suffocation technique was applied once or twice; on one occasion it was applied three times."

The total number of applications: between eight and 10 -- not the 83 mentioned in the Times.

Zyphlin said:

Little late on this Mr. V. In the main thread that was discussing the initial report and a few other ones it was already revealed that it was 183 pours and extremely ****ty reporting on the side of the journalists.

It doesn't necessarily make it "right", but it paints a FAR different picture then the original story tried to paint, though the above quotes you've put ALSO seem to give an incorrect picture.

"A matter of seconds" for example gives one the impression that its 3, 4 seconds. The report however stated that the pours was anywhere from 10 to 40 seconds. Personally, I don't view 40 as a "matter of seconds".

Also, where it says "not the number of times the technique was used" is also incorrect. Its not the number of SESSIONS, IE periods of time where multiple pours are administered, but each POUR is considered "waterboarding". That IS the technique.

****ty reporting on one side sadly seems to have bred ****ty reporting on the other side.

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Personally I think 40 seconds is about right.

However, I brought this article up because of the amount of screaming about 183 TIMES!!!!

Zyphlin said:

You gotta be ****ting me right? Really? THAT'S your contribution.

Was it a classic liberal tactic of denail of the truth when the original articles came out and the huffington post implied that he was water boarded for 10 to 20 minute sessions 183 times in a moth despite that obviously not being the truth?

Jesus Christ, I didn't see you bitching in the other thread concerning this about people "denying" the truth or having issues with liberals doing "typical tactics" of over exaggerating something to try and create a larger emotional reaction.

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Give me a freaking break. So freaking what if he was tortured 183 times for 20 min at a time or 1 long session where water was poured over his face 183 times at 10 to 40+ second each. It is freaking irrelevant. The man was tortured and the memos released proved it yet again. I could care less what the Huffington Post said or did not say or how they said it. It is irrelevant.

All this is, is an attempt by certain people to belittle and a throw "fog" around the fact that the US tortured this man and others. No amount of "fog" can change that fact that the US used torture under the Bush administration and are going to get away with it for now.

It must really be painful for you to know deep down the US is no better than the very terrorists that you are fighting and the US and especially the American right, have thrown away all the very principles that you are supposedly to be defending. But it is what I expect from the American right.. personal attacks, "fog" and twisting the facts and anything else to get away from the cold hard truth. It is classic guilt.. the Japanese have done it for 50 years over their WW2 atrocities.

PeteEU said:

Give me a freaking break. So freaking what if he was tortured 183 times for 20 min at a time or 1 long session where water was poured over his face 183 times at 10 to 40+ second each. It is freaking irrelevant. The man was tortured and the memos released proved it yet again. I could care less what the Huffington Post said or did not say or how they said it. It is irrelevant.

All this is, is an attempt by certain people to belittle and a throw "fog" around the fact that the US tortured this man and others. No amount of "fog" can change that fact that the US used torture under the Bush administration and are going to get away with it for now.

It must really be painful for you to know deep down the US is no better than the very terrorists that you are fighting and the US and especially the American right, have thrown away all the very principles that you are supposedly to be defending. But it is what I expect from the American right.. personal attacks, "fog" and twisting the facts and anything else to get away from the cold hard truth. It is classic guilt.. the Japanese have done it for 50 years over their WW2 atrocities.

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You've got to be ****ting me. So you get outraged that conservatives point out that the media HORRIBLY botched a story as being some kind of typical political ploy while have absolutely ZERO outrage or issue with the fact that multiple media sources...people who are SUPPOSED to be unbiased and objective...decided to print stories that were either intentionally through an agenda, or unintentionally through Horrendous amateur journalism, misleading in hopes of stirring up emotion.

If waterboarding and this stuff was SOOOOO Bad they wouldn't have needed to try to manipulate the population by trying to convince them it was worse by a magnitude of 20. Yet no outrage from you, no indignation, no idiotic little one line quips about the typical political bafoonery of a political party.

Sorry, but you know jack **** about what I feel "deep down". You're a partisan hack, whose opinions and views on things are about as relevant as any other talking head that regurgitates the same pathetic mindless dribble through their one tracked non-objective mind.

It is possible to both simulatenously be bothered by the amount of waterboarding that happened AND be bothered by the horrendous ****ty job of our pathetic media who seemed to be doing nothing but democrat propaganda on this point. But, god forbid, that'd mean you'd have to be critical about something other than the United States and Conservatives for once and doing something like that in any legitimate or worth while way outside of a passing nod for the sake of appearances would make you explode.

So...let's see...is the Left more angry that yet once again the New York Times is exposed as a partisan deceitful mouthpeice for the lunatic left or more angry that their Hero, Shake Pallid Calamari isn't the really really tough guy they thought, since he broke after only five treatments of an innocuous if uncomfortable procedure that less risky and less painful than a root canal?

PeteEU said:

All this is, is an attempt by certain people to belittle and a throw "fog" around the fact that the US tortured this man and others. No amount of "fog" can change that fact that the US used torture under the Bush administration and are going to get away with it for now.

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"Torture"? They still have their toes, tongues, and testicles, don't they?

Tell ya what, when next Europe is attacked by these animals, the US will sit back and enjoy the show, but kibbitz every step you people make. And when you step over any of the lines you try to draw for us, we'll be more than happy to blow the whistle and throw a little yellow flag for you guys.

PeteEU said:

It must really be painful for you to know deep down the US is no better than the very terrorists that you are fighting and the US and especially the American right, have thrown away all the very principles that you are supposedly to be defending.

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Well, then, how about if Europe DEMANDS the US withdraw all US troops from it's prissy soil, and that the US withdrawal all it's investment in Europe's prissy little companies, and we'll (finally) be allowed to stop carrying your water for you.

I'm easy.

Hope you like learning Russian, though.

PeteEU said:

Give me a freaking break. So freaking what if he was tortured 183 times for 20 min at a time or 1 long session where water was poured over his face 183 times at 10 to 40+ second each. It is freaking irrelevant. The man was tortured and the memos released proved it yet again. I could care less what the Huffington Post said or did not say or how they said it. It is irrelevant.

All this is, is an attempt by certain people to belittle and a throw "fog" around the fact that the US tortured this man and others. No amount of "fog" can change that fact that the US used torture under the Bush administration and are going to get away with it for now.

It must really be painful for you to know deep down the US is no better than the very terrorists that you are fighting and the US and especially the American right, have thrown away all the very principles that you are supposedly to be defending. But it is what I expect from the American right.. personal attacks, "fog" and twisting the facts and anything else to get away from the cold hard truth. It is classic guilt.. the Japanese have done it for 50 years over their WW2 atrocities.

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Meh. Waterboarding of a confirmed recidivist terrorist that prevented an attack trumps a slow sawing of an innocent skull completely off.
You are classically wrong.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Pearl"]The message read:[/ame]
“ "We give you one more day if America will not meet our demands we will kill Daniel. Then this cycle will continue and no American journalist could enter Pakistan." ”

Photos of Pearl handcuffed with a gun at his head and holding up a newspaper were attached. There was no response to pleas from Pearl's editor, nor from his wife Mariane.

Nine days later, Pearl was murdered and beheaded. Pearl's body was found cut into ten pieces and buried in a shallow grave in the outskirts of Karachi on May 16. When the police found his remains, Abdul Sattar Edhi arrived promptly on the scene, personally collected all 10 body parts, and took them to the morgue. Pearl's body was returned to the United States and was interred in the Mount Sinai Memorial Park Cemetery in Los Angeles, California.

No autopsy was performed. The subsequent video (see next section) made the sequence of events clear.

Scarecrow Akhbar said:

"Torture"? They still have their toes, tongues, and testicles, don't they?

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Rofl. Well. I guess by this logic we can chop off their fingers one at a time. As long as they're still alive right? If that phrase quoted above is at any point in your process of thought part of the justification for waterboarding then you have serious issues in your life.

Scarecrow Akhbar said:

"Torture"? They still have their toes, tongues, and testicles, don't they?

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Stage 1.: Trying to make it sound like water boarding is not torture. Well newsflash, it is.

Tell ya what, when next Europe is attacked by these animals, the US will sit back and enjoy the show, but kibbitz every step you people make. And when you step over any of the lines you try to draw for us, we'll be more than happy to blow the whistle and throw a little yellow flag for you guys.

Click to expand...

Stage 2: Insults against the commentator

Well, then, how about if Europe DEMANDS the US withdraw all US troops from it's prissy soil, and that the US withdrawal all it's investment in Europe's prissy little companies, and we'll (finally) be allowed to stop carrying your water for you.

I'm easy.

Hope you like learning Russian, though.

Click to expand...

Stage 3: More insults, and added "we saved your ass in WW2" comments

Result = More denial of the truth and clear example that someone lost the argument but cant admit it.

Zyphlin said:

You gotta be ****ting me right? Really? THAT'S your contribution.

Was it a classic liberal tactic of denail of the truth when the original articles came out and the huffington post implied that he was water boarded for 10 to 20 minute sessions 183 times in a moth despite that obviously not being the truth?

Jesus Christ, I didn't see you bitching in the other thread concerning this about people "denying" the truth or having issues with liberals doing "typical tactics" of over exaggerating something to try and create a larger emotional reaction.

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:lol: are we taking the bait Zyph?

Indeed. In general I don't bother "feeding the trolls", but sometimes the absolute absurdity gets the best of me about it and the urge to comment on the ludicrous notions win out. No one ever said ignoring those kind of things are easy

akyron said:

Meh. Waterboarding of a confirmed recidivist terrorist that prevented an attack trumps a slow sawing of an innocent skull completely off.
You are classically wrong.

The message read:
“ "We give you one more day if America will not meet our demands we will kill Daniel. Then this cycle will continue and no American journalist could enter Pakistan." ”

Photos of Pearl handcuffed with a gun at his head and holding up a newspaper were attached. There was no response to pleas from Pearl's editor, nor from his wife Mariane.

Nine days later, Pearl was murdered and beheaded. Pearl's body was found cut into ten pieces and buried in a shallow grave in the outskirts of Karachi on May 16. When the police found his remains, Abdul Sattar Edhi arrived promptly on the scene, personally collected all 10 body parts, and took them to the morgue. Pearl's body was returned to the United States and was interred in the Mount Sinai Memorial Park Cemetery in Los Angeles, California.

No autopsy was performed. The subsequent video (see next section) made the sequence of events clear.

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Liberals need to stop getting their panties in a wad every time there's a war. I'll bet Petey was silent when Daniel Pearl got his head cut off with a jambiya.

MrVicchio said:

So they were careful to follow guidelines, there were strict uses placed on the water boarding... yeah.

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Though I personally don't agree with waterboarding I am glad to see they are still following guidelines and that the torture being inflicted isn't some underground room where no camera's or records are allowed, as some may try to have us believe.

MrVicchio said:

Wait what, 183 POURS?


Despite Reports, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Was Not Waterboarded 183 Times - Presidential Politics | Political News - FOXNews.com

So they were careful to follow guidelines, there were strict uses placed on the water boarding... yeah.

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So allow me to understand something, only TWO despotic terrorists were water boarded??? The HORROR!

Once more, it is evident to anyone who is not willfully suspending their intelligence that this whole debate is a purely partisan political witch hunt intended to impugn political opponents in the court of public opinion.

The sad part is how ignorant the American public is to such despicable partisan attacks and how they have not reacted by chastising these Democrat morons.

Hatuey said:

Rofl. Well. I guess by this logic we can chop off their fingers one at a time. As long as they're still alive right? If that phrase quoted above is at any point in your process of thought part of the justification for waterboarding then you have serious issues in your life.

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Yeah that's the whole point of Akbars argument Hatuey. ::wink wink::

Once again you troll rather than add anything of substance; what a shocker. :roll:

Gibberish said:

Though I personally don't agree with waterboarding I am glad to see they are still following guidelines and that the torture being inflicted isn't some underground room where no camera's or records are allowed, as some may try to have us believe.

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You make it sound like terrorist have rights, and deserve to be treated well. No, you make it sound like they are innocent victims of a mean government.


So sad to see that mentality among the populace now.

You do realize these men had information on attacks that could have killed innocent people right? Or does that not matter?

MrVicchio said:

You make it sound like terrorist have rights, and deserve to be treated well. No, you make it sound like they are innocent victims of a mean government.

So sad to see that mentality among the populace now.

You do realize these men had information on attacks that could have killed innocent people right? Or does that not matter?

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They do have inherit rights as human beings and we have a moral code we should adhere to as good natured human beings. Also, I know that many of these people are SUSPECTED terrorists. They may or may not be terrorists.

I am personally sad by your mentality they these people are unquestionably terrorists based on the single fact that they are imprisoned. I am also more sad that you seem to believe that humans should be able to be tortured based solely on our government suspicions.

Gibberish said:

They do have inherit rights as human beings and we have a moral code we should adhere to as good natured human beings. Also, I know that many of these people are SUSPECTED terrorists. They may or may not be terrorists.

I am personally sad by your mentality they these people are unquestionably terrorists based on the single fact that they are imprisoned. I am also more sad that you seem to believe that humans should be able to be tortured based solely on our government suspicions.

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So does this feigned "moral code" you express extend to the unborn, embryos or conducting war against another country?

Or is this "code" of yours only for terrorists attempting to murder innocents?

Gibberish said:

They do have inherit rights as human beings and we have a moral code we should adhere to as good natured human beings. Also, I know that many of these people are SUSPECTED terrorists. They may or may not be terrorists.

I am personally sad by your mentality they these people are unquestionably terrorists based on the single fact that they are imprisoned. I am also more sad that you seem to believe that humans should be able to be tortured based solely on our government suspicions.

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You'd let me and my family die instead of getting the information from a terrorist, because your AFRAID of hurting someone.

I'd break his knee caps and get the information if needed and you'd live never knowing you were in the cross hairs, then you'd want me jailed for it.


Who is the better person here? The one that let's people die or the one that saves lives?

PeteEU said:

Stage 1.: Trying to make it sound like water boarding is not torture. Well newsflash, it is.

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Here, let's open your eyes: Waterboarding is not torture.