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The U.S. Supreme Court gives OK to government crackdown on the airwaves.

So you're ok with government censorship, just as long as it is censorship YOU agree with it?



Of course I am and so is everyone else here.
We ALL agree with varying degrees of "censorship".
In fact many of you go out of your way to apply additional layers to yourselves and others(we like to call it PC)
 
We ALL agree with varying degrees of "censorship".
In fact many of you go out of your way to apply additional layers to yourselves and others(we like to call it PC)

Which varying degree do I agree with?
 
I have no idea. I know though that at some point you'd say "ok that is not right"
..problem is you'll never admit what that point is here.
 
As I said, the only job of the FCC should be to enforce property rights, not censor. It's not public airwaves. Just because you can get a piece of metal of proper length and pick up electro-magnetic radiation and have a device which can interpret that radiation and compose a series of fast moving pictures and sounds out of it does not make it public. You do not pay for the use of that frequency. You can not just set up a radio station or tv station and broadcast at your whim. The use of that specific E&M spectrum is cut off to you, you may only receive a signal, you may not broadcast on in that frequency bandwidth yourself. Someone else, a private person, has paid for the rights to use that frequency and power. Thus it belongs to them, it's private.

It's the same damned thing with the smoking ban. People call the private business public so they can make excuses as to why government has a proper role sticking its nose in where it don't belong. Conservative...liberal...neither respect property. You define it which ever way you want to get what you want. No smoking, "decency" on TV...whatever BS you can make up. Follow the money, who pays is the owner. If it's public, the public pays for it and the public can use it. If it's private, a private individual pays for it and can deny use of it at their leisure. Both are true for private business and TV/Radio. You can't go to a radio station and demand to have a program, they choose to let you speak and broadcast those words. Business owners can kick you out, they don't have to let you use the kitchen or make your own drink.

No matter how you cut it, if you wish to acknowledge reality, you see that the "public" airwaves happen to be private. Just because you have a device that can pick up certain signals doesn't mean that what you have found is public. You only wish to define it as such so that you can excuse censorship against the People.

:rofl Carry on Ikari, I know, you are the center of the universe and all that is revolves around you.

By the way, just for my edification, how old are you? I am willing to bet barely 25 if that.
 
So you believe that someone who is 8 or even 10 years old can make the determination of what they are watching and it's content?

No, but their parents can.

Truth Detector said:
How hard is it for you to comprehend that the PUBLIC airwaves are intended to be kept to a neutral content without vulgar language, sex or porn because they are PUBLIC and for those who want vulgar content, they can get that on cable or satellite channels.

Well actually Nickelodeon and Comedy Central are cable channels. And they're still regulated by the FCC, just not as tightly.

Truth Detector said:
Can you guarantee every parent in the United States that their children will not tune into "adult" material if it is permitted to be broadcast on the public airwaves?

Why should I (or the government) have to make you any such guarantee? Don't let your kids watch it if you're that worried about it. The government is NOT your kids' babysitter.

Truth Detector said:
How difficult a concept is this for people like you? :roll:

I find it ironic that the people shrieking the loudest about needing to regulate the content on public airwaves are often the same people who criticize the so-called Fairness Doctrine.
 
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How is that my problem? I don't care what you let your kids watch or how ****ty a parent you are so that you can't control what they watch. You want to use lousy parenting as excuse to infringe on the rights of the individual? That's ****ed up.

I knew this was coming; so tell me Ikari, how many children do you have and have raised?


How hard is it for you to comprehend that it is not public? Do you pay to use a frequency? Can you broadcast? No? Didn't think so, because the use of that frequency and power is not yours. That belongs to a company which bought the rights to it. You can merely purchase a device which can pick up and interpret the radiation and display a signal. Tax payer money doesn't support FOX or ABC to broadcast over the air. The companies bought that ability, it's theirs. Case closed.

As much as you want to rant about what is NOT public, the fact that the Government has ownership of the rights to broadcast and licenses the airwaves you transmit on does indeed make them public.

Once more in your highly emotional anarchical state, you didn't answer my question; if the frequencies of airwaves were left unregulated, you would have nothing but a mass of confused transmissions and anarchy.

Avoiding reality is hardly a good debate tactic don't you think?

I can...it's called unplug the TV. Only let it operate when you are around. Be a damned responsible parent instead of trying to social engineer things so you don't have to watch over your kids. "Oh please...won't someone PLEASE think of the CHILDREN"! What piss poor appeal to emotion. It's the oldest false argument on the books. You can't just see the E&M radiation which composes TV and radio signals. You need a device to receive them. Control that device. Jesus Christ, is that too much? You kids can't watch TV if there is no TV.

So how many children did you say you had and have raised?

I don't know. How difficult is the concept of responsibility to you? Why do you have to have the government solve your problem for you? Baffles me.

Who is arguing that the Government should solve my problems for me? Must you always conjur up pretend arguments when you rant on such a raw emotional level?

I know you think the world should revolve around you and your naive myopic perceptions of reality, raising children whom you obviously haven't done and what constitutes the public airwaves, but the REAL world simply doesn't care that you THINK it should revolve around you and your narcissistic views.

In the REAL world, PUBLIC airwaves is one thing and should be regulated, and PRIVATE airwaves can contain whatever content it desires; Cable and Satellite.

It is not that hard for you to comprehend is it?

You don’t like it; we get it. But this is not about YOU; it is about ALL of us and the fact that if broadcast transmissions through the airwaves are not controlled, you would have nothing but garbled nonsense. Someone has to do it dude.

Now take a breath or some meds.
 
:rofl Carry on Ikari, I know, you are the center of the universe and all that is revolves around you.

By the way, just for my edification, how old are you? I am willing to bet barely 25 if that.

I'm a 31 year old scientist (physicist to be precise). I don't believe that the world revolves around me. I merely believe heavily in property rights and the liberty of the individual. Maybe the frustrating thing about me to the waffling type is that all my arguments are rooted in the same philosophy and extremely self-consistent. Where as the wafflers have to tailor each of their arguments to specific cases because they change the base they argue from.

BTW, I know you couldn't actually counter any of my arguments, that's why you made this deflect post with unsubstantiated claims instead of addressing the issues I brought up. Carry on.
 
I'm a 31 year old scientist (physicist to be precise). I don't believe that the world revolves around me. I merely believe heavily in property rights and the liberty of the individual. Maybe the frustrating thing about me to the waffling type is that all my arguments are rooted in the same philosophy and extremely self-consistent. Where as the wafflers have to tailor each of their arguments to specific cases because they change the base they argue from.

BTW, I know you couldn't actually counter any of my arguments, that's why you made this deflect post with unsubstantiated claims instead of addressing the issues I brought up. Carry on.

Well Mr. 31 year old physicist, how can one counter your arguments when it is so apparent that you lack comprehension of the points they make?

What do you think the airwaves would be like if the FCC did not regulate and specify who can use those wave lengths. Being a physicist, I would imagine you are very aware of how sounds are transmitted and their frequency responses.

Do you believe than an UNREGULATED broadcast of transmissions over the air would not result in anarchy and nothing more than garbled interference?

If so, I would question your self proclaimed status as a physicist.

By the way, we do believe in a lot of the same things, my version is less naive and more based in REALITY. I rarely susbtitute reality for idealism; I have grown out of that stage.
 
Well Mr. 31 year old physicist, how can one counter your arguments when it is so apparent that you lack comprehension of the points they make?

What do you think the airwaves would be like if the FCC did not regulate and specify who can use those wave lengths. Being a physicist, I would imagine you are very aware of how sounds are transmitted and their frequency responses.

Do you believe than an UNREGULATED broadcast of transmissions over the air would not result in anarchy and nothing more than garbled interference?

Two completely different issues. The FCC is perfectly capable of regulating who can broadcast on which frequency, without also regulating F-bombs and wardrobe malfunctions.
 
Two completely different issues. The FCC is perfectly capable of regulating who can broadcast on which frequency, without also regulating F-bombs and wardrobe malfunctions.

The majority of the public, myself included do not agree with you Kandahar; remember, the world doesn't revolve around you and Ikari's particular version of mores and feelings on the topic.
 
I knew this was coming; so tell me Ikari, how many children do you have and have raised?

None, it's irrelevant. My argument is based on property, not the number of children raised. Your children are not my concern. This is deflect and nothing more.

As much as you want to rant about what is NOT public, the fact that the Government has ownership of the rights to broadcast and licenses the airwaves you transmit on does indeed make them public.

Yes yes, and a private bar is public because we call it that. Follow the money, who pays is who owns. You call it "public", but only to substantiate your point. The government "owns" it, and sells the rights to use it to companies. It merely begs the question as to how the government initially came into possession of a piece of the electromagnetic spectrum. It's like if they outlawed the transmission of red.

Simplest way to put it is who pays is the owner.

Once more in your highly emotional anarchical state, you didn't answer my question; if the frequencies of airwaves were left unregulated, you would have nothing but a mass of confused transmissions and anarchy.

This is unsubstantiated claim, hyperbole, and intellectually dishonest argument. At no point do I push for anarchy. In fact, I said that I believe the FCC's sole responsibility should be the protection of property rights. Pirating the airwaves would still be considered an offense because someone else purchased the rights to use that frequency and power and you have no right to infringe upon their property. It's not anarchy. You are only using that deflect because you can't address the actual issue of property rights. That's your inability to properly form an argument and articulate it, not mine. I'd appreciate it if you'd refrain from such obvious intellectually dishonest claims in the future when you are unable to properly argue against the base argument.

Avoiding reality is hardly a good debate tactic don't you think?

I do think so. But you're oh so good at it.

So how many children did you say you had and have raised?

Irrelevant, the argument isn't based on how many kids one has raised, it's based in property rights.

Who is arguing that the Government should solve my problems for me? Must you always conjur up pretend arguments when you rant on such a raw emotional level?

It's not emotional argument. You in fact are arguing the government should solve your problems for you. You raised children...it's ever so difficult to always police what they want. Therefore, you want the government to come in and police what is on the airwaves so that in case you are unable to properly supervise your children, they can't be exposed to content you do not like. That is the base of what you claim through the use of the FCC to uphold "decency". It is you trying to get the government to solve your problem for you. You big government statists are all the same.

I know you think the world should revolve around you and your naive myopic perceptions of reality, raising children whom you obviously haven't done and what constitutes the public airwaves, but the REAL world simply doesn't care that you THINK it should revolve around you and your narcissistic views.

Ad-hoc. And outright lie. My arguments don't even suggest that I think the world should revolve around me. This is further deflect, insult, and intellectual dishonesty on your part to avoid the base argument. My argument in fact is that it's up to the property owners, not me, to choose what they broadcast on their frequency. You claiming that I think the world revolves around me is nothing short of lie and hyperbole used to deflect from the real issues. Your arguments fall flat and you're oft left with nothing but personal insult, hyperbole, lie, and intellectually dishonest argument. That is measured fact.

In the REAL world, PUBLIC airwaves is one thing and should be regulated, and PRIVATE airwaves can contain whatever content it desires; Cable and Satellite.

In the real world, someone paid to use that piece of the electromagnetic spectrum. Thus they are private, you can not use them; I can not use them. It is the owner's ability to use and broadcast on

It is not that hard for you to comprehend is it?

Tell me? Is property that hard for you to comprehend?

You don’t like it; we get it. But this is not about YOU; it is about ALL of us and the fact that if broadcast transmissions through the airwaves are not controlled, you would have nothing but garbled nonsense. Someone has to do it dude.

It's not about me. It's about the free practice of the rights and liberties of the individual. I'm not arguing for my sake. If anything, it makes my job harder as I would have to work harder to servo what I watched and what was allowed to be on TV in my house. It's the antithesis of a personal argument. Someone has to do it? No, that's not true. No one has to do it. Consumer pressure can regulate what is shown, the government need not trample personal property rights to do so.

Now take a breath or some meds.

Yay for more personal insult by the TD.
 
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The majority of the public,

Do you have any recent polling data on this? :confused:

Truth Detector said:
myself included do not agree with you Kandahar;

Then surely you should be able to refute the arguments I made, instead of ignoring them.

Truth Detector said:
remember, the world doesn't revolve around you and Ikari's particular version of mores and feelings on the topic.

Actually it does. YOU are the one who wants to restrict freedom of speech; the burden of proof is on YOU to explain why it's necessary.
 
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Do you believe than an UNREGULATED broadcast of transmissions over the air would not result in anarchy and nothing more than garbled interference?

No, anarchy would not result. As I have stated several times now, the FCC's sole responsibility would be property protection. Piracy would still be bad. Proper consumer pressure can take care of the rest.

If so, I would question your self proclaimed status as a physicist.

You'd better voice your concerns to the scientific journals I am published in. They may wish to know this information about me that you have.

By the way, we do believe in a lot of the same things, my version is less naive and more based in REALITY. I rarely susbtitute reality for idealism; I have grown out of that stage.

I don't wish to use the government for things we can do ourselves. That's it. Some people wish to enact government to take care of things for them, I don't believe that proper use of government especially when that takes the form of infringing upon the rights of the individual. I believe it so much, that I don't even ask you to stop with your personal insults to me.
 
None, it's irrelevant. My argument is based on property, not the number of children raised. Your children are not my concern. This is deflect and nothing more.

It is absolutely relevant when you make uninformed comments about how one should raise and be responsible for their children when you are clearly incapable of understanding how absurd such assertions are.

The concept of always knowing where your children are and controlling what they do and watch at all hours of the day can only come from those who have no concept of what they are talking about because they have little or no experience in dealing with the young.

It is hard to take your arguments serious when they are made in such a vacuum of reality and factual experience.

I have a personal experience to share with you; I was at a Target store with my formerly very young sons and wife; they were acting up and throwing balls all over the store and I had asked numerous times to stop with no uncertainty what would happen if they didn't.

The goofing off continued until I grabbed one of them and smacked them pretty hard; which ended the goofing off and putting the balls back in the rack whence they came.

On the way to the car while carrying my youngest across my shoulder like a sack of potatoes, someone like you stopped me to lecture me on how wrong it was for me to have smacked my child; so I asked him how many children he had. His answer was that he didn't have any children and wasn't even married. I told him he should mind his own f***ing business and come back and see me when he had kids of his own and could speak from authority on the subject. My kids once in the car even asked why that person was being so nosey; even a child can comprehend when someone is beyond their capacity to comprehend them.

The notion that Kids can be reasoned with or somehow controlled 24-7 can only come from a naive point of view and from the ignorance of never having raised kids or dealing with them on a daily basis.
 
Do you have any recent polling data on this? :confused:

Then surely you should be able to refute the arguments I made, instead of ignoring them.

Actually it does. YOU are the one who wants to restrict freedom of speech; the burden of proof is on YOU to explain why it's necessary.

Do you think it is okay to yell "FIRE" in a crowded auditorium?
 
No, anarchy would not result. As I have stated several times now, the FCC's sole responsibility would be property protection. Piracy would still be bad. Proper consumer pressure can take care of the rest.

You'd better voice your concerns to the scientific journals I am published in. They may wish to know this information about me that you have.

I don't wish to use the government for things we can do ourselves. That's it. Some people wish to enact government to take care of things for them, I don't believe that proper use of government especially when that takes the form of infringing upon the rights of the individual. I believe it so much, that I don't even ask you to stop with your personal insults to me.

So who do you think should own the air? Can we parcel it out? :roll:
 
Do you think it is okay to yell "FIRE" in a crowded auditorium?

Nope. Inciting panic is a crime, as it should be, since people can die as a result. That has WHAT to do with freaking out over a nipple on television?
 
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As I said, the only job of the FCC should be to enforce property rights, not censor. It's not public airwaves. Just because you can get a piece of metal of proper length and pick up electro-magnetic radiation and have a device which can interpret that radiation and compose a series of fast moving pictures and sounds out of it does not make it public. You do not pay for the use of that frequency. You can not just set up a radio station or tv station and broadcast at your whim. The use of that specific E&M spectrum is cut off to you, you may only receive a signal, you may not broadcast on in that frequency bandwidth yourself. Someone else, a private person, has paid for the rights to use that frequency and power. Thus it belongs to them, it's private.

While you're correct that you cannot simply set up a radio or TV station at your whim, your conclusion that the airwaves are 'private' is an extremely narrow and misleading position.

The 'public' airwaves include not just television and radio frequencies used by private corporations... but all sorts of broadcast usages... including military, police, fire and rescue, aviation, cellular phones, wireless broadband... among others. The allocation of these frequencies is controlled by the government. Private companies obtain licenses to broadcast in these frequencies. They do not 'own' them.

To suggest that the airwaves are 'private' is simply not accurate.

..
 
The majority of the public, myself included do not agree with you Kandahar; remember, the world doesn't revolve around you and Ikari's particular version of mores and feelings on the topic.

You base this on....?

One organization accounted for almost 100% of the FCC's indecency complaints.

One organization which at absolute most claims a million members by its own account (never mind the obvious dubious nature of that) which represents less then 1/300th of our population means the majority agree with you?

Why is that the FCC got no complaints about Saving Private Ryan's public broadcast when that show used the F word?

Oh logic and facts. The Antidote to TD.
 
While you're correct that you cannot simply set up a radio or TV station at your whim, your conclusion that the airwaves are 'private' is an extremely narrow and misleading position.

The 'public' airwaves include not just television and radio frequencies used by private corporations... but all sorts of broadcast usages... including military, police, fire and rescue, aviation, cellular phones, wireless broadband... among others. The allocation of these frequencies is controlled by the government. Private companies obtain licenses to broadcast in these frequencies. They do not 'own' them.

To suggest that the airwaves are 'private' is simply not accurate.

..
Who owns the airwaves, the government?

I think it should be like owning land, since that's the next closest thing to the airwaves. Government should protect you from trespassers and thieves, but it shouldn't be able tell you whether you can build a house or a barn.
 
So who do you think should own the air? Can we parcel it out? :roll:

Air and spectrum are different things. The air is composed of molecules by which many biological creatures inhale to continue living. No one buys the air, no one can transmit upon it, you do not need specialized equipment apart from your own biology to use it. The particular section of the electromagnetic spectrum used for broadcast is not exactly the same. You could ask how the government came to own it, that's valid and I'm not sure how. But the E&M spectrum used for broadcast is not essential for life, it is used as medium for information transfer, and requires specialized equipment to make use of.

Shall we compare apples to apples? Or are you going to continue with nothing but deflect and not address the base issue?
 
While you're correct that you cannot simply set up a radio or TV station at your whim, your conclusion that the airwaves are 'private' is an extremely narrow and misleading position.

The 'public' airwaves include not just television and radio frequencies used by private corporations... but all sorts of broadcast usages... including military, police, fire and rescue, aviation, cellular phones, wireless broadband... among others. The allocation of these frequencies is controlled by the government. Private companies obtain licenses to broadcast in these frequencies. They do not 'own' them.

To suggest that the airwaves are 'private' is simply not accurate.

..

Ok, that's a fair enough. There are many segments of the E&M spectrum used and regulated for various purposes. I suppose in that which the FCC is concerned with, I'll specifically refer to it as television and radio.
 
It is absolutely relevant when you make uninformed comments about how one should raise and be responsible for their children when you are clearly incapable of understanding how absurd such assertions are.

The concept of always knowing where your children are and controlling what they do and watch at all hours of the day can only come from those who have no concept of what they are talking about because they have little or no experience in dealing with the young.

It is hard to take your arguments serious when they are made in such a vacuum of reality and factual experience.

I have a personal experience to share with you; I was at a Target store with my formerly very young sons and wife; they were acting up and throwing balls all over the store and I had asked numerous times to stop with no uncertainty what would happen if they didn't.

The goofing off continued until I grabbed one of them and smacked them pretty hard; which ended the goofing off and putting the balls back in the rack whence they came.

On the way to the car while carrying my youngest across my shoulder like a sack of potatoes, someone like you stopped me to lecture me on how wrong it was for me to have smacked my child; so I asked him how many children he had. His answer was that he didn't have any children and wasn't even married. I told him he should mind his own f***ing business and come back and see me when he had kids of his own and could speak from authority on the subject. My kids once in the car even asked why that person was being so nosey; even a child can comprehend when someone is beyond their capacity to comprehend them.

The notion that Kids can be reasoned with or somehow controlled 24-7 can only come from a naive point of view and from the ignorance of never having raised kids or dealing with them on a daily basis.

This is nothing but deflect and does not address the issue. Your kids are not my concern. You want to make rules based on your kids, I disagree because that's not my problem, or the problem of others in general. How you raise your kids is up to you, how active you are is up to you. In fact, that last little story of yours I wouldn't care about either. Though it would mean you'd have to admit to your consistent lies about me and your use of hyperbole. Your children are your concern and you should not be able to impress your concerns on the rest of society. It's your problem, you deal with it. I'm not going to socially engineer situations so that you can have an easier time. You choose to have kids, you can live with the consequences and responsibilities of doing so. You want to say you can't control your kids 24-7, thus we should accept infringement of property and speech rights to protect your kids from what you consider inappropriate. I say, that's all your problem, deal with it yourself. Keep your stories to yourself, I do not care about you, your children, or your life. I care about the rights and liberties of the people and proper use of government. If you want to discuss that, come back. If you want to do nothing but insult me and engage in deflect comments and stories about your children, you're more than free to do so; but you're contributing nothing to the conversation, the debate, or your agenda and I'll point that out each time.
 
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Who owns the airwaves, the government?

I think it should be like owning land, since that's the next closest thing to the airwaves. Government should protect you from trespassers and thieves, but it shouldn't be able tell you whether you can build a house or a barn.

The government CAN tell you whether you can build a house or a barn. You don't actually OWN real property... you own a BUNDLE OF RIGHTS to property which the government kindly allows you to make use of through a deed of trust or title.

I'm not suggesting that broadcast ownership and real property ownership are comparable. But your misunderstanding about real property suggests that you need to review these issues a little more carefully.

..
 
The government CAN tell you whether you can build a house or a barn. You don't actually OWN real property... you own a BUNDLE OF RIGHTS to property which the government kindly allows you to make use of through a deed of trust or title.

I'm not suggesting that broadcast ownership and real property ownership are comparable. But your misunderstanding about real property suggests that you need to review these issues a little more carefully.

..

This is sad truth. Actual property rights have been chipped away at for some time. You can not have allodial title to pieces of property. I think that one reason we should press to restore power to property rights; it's extremely important.
 
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