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Thread: Iranian leader: We'd support an Israeli-Palestianian peace agreement

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    Re: Iranian leader: We'd support an Israeli-Palestianian peace agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Such as when Bush demanded nations capitulate to his demands as a precondition for negotiations?

    Demands like ceasing their attempts to acquire nuclear weapons? DAMN HIM!!!

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    Re: Iranian leader: We'd support an Israeli-Palestianian peace agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    The U.S. should abandon Israel if it does not conform to human rights as well.
    Yet...continue to ignore the human rights record of Saudi Arabia for oil. And continue to ignore China's human rights record for sake of international business and trade. Perhaps we should have turned our backs on France when it publicly tortured hundreds of thousands of Africans in Algiers. Give it up. Israel's human rights record is as much in question as everyone else's. The freedoms extended to all citizens of Israel far outshines the oppression and abuse of Muslim govermments. But you wish their human rights record to reflect their contuinued retaliations towards a people who slaughter civilains on busses and in market squares. The freest nation in the Middle East, which affords Muslims the same rights as Jews, is hardly the exaggerated monster you make it out to be.

    Your bias is gross.

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    Re: Iranian leader: We'd support an Israeli-Palestianian peace agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Such as when Bush demanded nations capitulate to his demands as a precondition for negotiations?
    .........Huh? No...not like that. And which nations? How did Bush get into this discussion anyway?

    Bush dismissed Iran knowing that negotiations were pointless (like all Presidents before him). Obama took a different angle knowing that Iran will not budge. Obama's angle will merely prove Bush correct.
    Last edited by MSgt; 04-27-09 at 02:44 AM.

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    Re: Iranian leader: We'd support an Israeli-Palestianian peace agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    .........Huh? No...not like that. And which nations? How did Bush get into this discussion anyway?
    Iran, Cuba, North Korea, and Syria all come to mind. Bush got into this discussion because you posted this:
    They all use this trick and it only works on the weak minded. What is the likelyhood of any peace agreement between Palestinians and Israel? His promise to support what will not happen is empty, especially given that the Majlis rules Iran. This is much like Osama Bin Laden who proposes peace as soon as America completely leaves the Middle East and foresakes Israel. Such promises and oaths in the impossible merely ensure that the war will go on forever while convincing the weak masses that they made the attempt.
    ...which is pretty much EXACTLY what people are doing who refuse to even talk to other nations until AFTER those nations do everything we want. It's not going to happen, the people making those demands KNOW it isn't going to happen, but it ensures that the conflict goes on forever while convincing the weak masses that they made the attempt.

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt
    Bush dismissed Iran knowing that negotiations were pointless (like all Presidents before him).
    Right...just like ALL presidents before him, he dismissed them out of hand. So how would he know it's pointless since no one has ever tried it before?

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt
    Obama took a different angle knowing that Iran will not budge. Obama's angle will merely prove Bush correct.
    An audience with the United States is not a prize to be won in exchange for capitulating to our demands. That's the whole POINT of diplomacy.
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    Re: Iranian leader: We'd support an Israeli-Palestianian peace agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    I have plenty of examples of the mothers of future suicide bombers standing proudly behind their sons in video clips as they discuss their intentions.
    And how does that equate to all of them? Again you fail to show how bulldozing the houses of family members for the crimes of children solves the problem.

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    Re: Iranian leader: We'd support an Israeli-Palestianian peace agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    Yet...continue to ignore the human rights record of Saudi Arabia for oil. And continue to ignore China's human rights record for sake of international business and trade. Perhaps we should have turned our backs on France when it publicly tortured hundreds of thousands of Africans in Algiers. Give it up. Israel's human rights record is as much in question as everyone else's. The freedoms extended to all citizens of Israel far outshines the oppression and abuse of Muslim govermments. But you wish their human rights record to reflect their contuinued retaliations towards a people who slaughter civilains on busses and in market squares. The freest nation in the Middle East, which affords Muslims the same rights as Jews, is hardly the exaggerated monster you make it out to be.

    Your bias is gross.
    Sorry but unlike you I don't support ANY alliance with scum like you mentioned including Israel. The hypocrisy is that you support it.

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    Re: Iranian leader: We'd support an Israeli-Palestianian peace agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Iran, Cuba, North Korea, and Syria all come to mind.
    Oh...you mean nations that all former Presidents laregly ignored because of policies set for good reason. But this is yet another attempt to assign Bush to everything isn't it?


    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post

    Bush got into this discussion because you posted this:


    ...which is pretty much EXACTLY what people are doing who refuse to even talk to other nations until AFTER those nations do everything we want. It's not going to happen, the people making those demands KNOW it isn't going to happen, but it ensures that the conflict goes on forever while convincing the weak masses that they made the attempt.
    I stated nothing about Bush. And this is not exactly at all what I referred to. Iran could have ceased their nuclear garbage as the "world" asked. North Korea could have stopped their nuclear garbage (which it teased to do under Bush talks numerous times) like the "world" asked. And let's be honest. Bush got into this discussion because you can't let it go and seek to criticize Bush at every turn.

    What I stated is associated to the apocalyptic and religious terrorist. The same mind that would throw a woman tied to a rock and thrown in a lake to see if she floats and thereby innocent of witch charges. In the end, the goal is to throw the woman in to the lake.

    The IRA made earthly and practical demands. Al-Queda does not. Al-Queda demands the impossible and attempts to legitimize itself. Ahmenadejed just made a policy promise knowing that peace between Israel and Palestinians is impossible, especially with an Iranian funded Hezbollah antagonizing violence.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Right...just like ALL presidents before him, he dismissed them out of hand. So how would he know it's pointless since no one has ever tried it before?
    Well, Obama is the first. Yet, the nuclear quest goes on doesn't it? Some things are obvious. And you didnt seek to assign criticism towards "ALL" presidents....just Bush.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    An audience with the United States is not a prize to be won in exchange for capitulating to our demands. That's the whole POINT of diplomacy.
    In this case, the point of diplomacy is to talk the time away until Iran is marching around nuclear weapons in Tehran like they do in North Korea and did in the Moscow. The UN and the EU has tried diplomacy for years and an Iranian progressed nuclear project proves it pointless.

    When in doubt, talk yourself into a bigger problem I guess.

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    Re: Iranian leader: We'd support an Israeli-Palestianian peace agreement

    Demands like ceasing their attempts to acquire nuclear weapons? DAMN HIM!!!
    I don't see what is unreasonable about demanding the handing back of land occupied due to an invasion as a precondition for negotiations.

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    Re: Iranian leader: We'd support an Israeli-Palestianian peace agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    Oh...you mean nations that all former Presidents laregly ignored because of policies set for good reason. But this is yet another attempt to assign Bush to everything isn't it?
    Nope. The same can apply to Clinton, Bush Sr, Reagan, or Carter.

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt
    I stated nothing about Bush. And this is not exactly at all what I referred to. Iran could have ceased their nuclear garbage as the "world" asked. North Korea could have stopped their nuclear garbage (which it teased to do under Bush talks numerous times) like the "world" asked.
    Yes, theoretically they could. And the United States could theoretically withdraw from the entire Middle East, and Israel could theoretically allow all Palestinian refugees the right of return. But the people demanding those things, in ALL of those cases, know perfectly well that they aren't going to happen.

    That kind of foreign policy is no better when it's practiced by US Presidents and hawkish pundits than when it's practiced by Ahmadinejad and Bin Laden.

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt
    And let's be honest. Bush got into this discussion because you can't let it go and seek to criticize Bush at every turn.
    You can replace the name Bush with Bill Clinton if you like. The point still stands.

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt
    The IRA made earthly and practical demands. Al-Queda does not. Al-Queda demands the impossible and attempts to legitimize itself.
    You are absolutely right, they make impossible, impractical demands. Which does not sound particularly different that what the US government does whenever it demands another nation abandon all its interests and do what the US wants before we'll even talk to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt
    Ahmenadejed just made a policy promise knowing that peace between Israel and Palestinians is impossible, especially with an Iranian funded Hezbollah antagonizing violence.
    There are elements in Israel that desire peace. There are elements in Palestine that desire peace. The key is getting both of these elements into power at the same time. With Netanyahu in charge of Israel and Hamas controlling the Gaza Strip, that seems highly unlikely at the present time. If it's Tzipi Livni and Mahmoud Abbas, that would be much more possible. Just because it isn't going to happen tomorrow doesn't mean it will never happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt
    Well, Obama is the first. Yet, the nuclear quest goes on doesn't it? Some things are obvious.
    Uhh well it's been all of, what, 100 days? The truth of the matter is that it's probably too late. The previous administration wasted so much precious time shunning Iran instead of negotiating with them that there is probably no way to stop them now, short of a full-scale invasion which isn't going to happen. The world will probably have to learn to live with a nuclear Iran.

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt
    And you didnt seek to assign criticism towards "ALL" presidents....just Bush.
    Fine, replace "Bush" with "Bill Clinton" in my previous post then.

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt
    In this case, the point of diplomacy is to talk the time away until Iran is marching around nuclear weapons in Tehran like they do in North Korea and did in the Moscow.
    And what did we accomplish by shunning them for the past eight years?

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt
    The UN and the EU has tried diplomacy for years and an Iranian progressed nuclear project proves it pointless.
    It certainly didn't help that the United States was not a part of those negotiations.

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt
    When in doubt, talk yourself into a bigger problem I guess.
    What exactly do you want to do about Iran? Shun them some more until they cry and give up their nukes?
    Last edited by Kandahar; 04-27-09 at 03:26 AM.
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    Re: Iranian leader: We'd support an Israeli-Palestianian peace agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    And how does that equate to all of them?
    I didn't say "all of them" did I?

    Again you fail to show how bulldozing the houses of family members for the crimes of children solves the problem.
    The fact of the matter is that one does not wake up in the morning and say "I think I'm going to blow myself up today" it takes years of indoctrination to get to that point. Furthermore; if a wouldbe suicide bomber knows that his family will suffer for his crimes then maybe he'll think twice about it, it's a detterent as much as it is a punishment.

    But you are right about one thing it will not solve the problem of Jihad, the short term regional solution for the Jihad over Israel is kicking the "Palestinians" the hell out of Israel and into Jordan where they belong. And the long term global solution is ending the fifteen hundred year Islamic Imperialist occupation from North Africa to Indonesia.
    Last edited by Agent Ferris; 04-27-09 at 03:37 AM.

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