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Thread: Swine flu is worse in Mexico, but why?

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    Re: Swine flu is worse in Mexico, but why?

    We live within a capitalist economic system that encourages the mass production of livestock, entailing horrid, close-quarters living conditions for these animals. This creates an environment conducive to the mutation of viruses and increases the chance that these viruses will jump to humans.

    So what do we do? We ignore the excessive agricultural system that creates this scenario and try to deal with its consequences. Treat the symptom and not the disease. Profit is profit though, I guess.

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    Re: Swine flu is worse in Mexico, but why?

    So has Pat Robertson came out and said this is God's wrath on Mexico for bringing drugs and crime on God's favourite country in the whole wide world - the US yet?
    "Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." ~ Isaac Asimov

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    Re: Swine flu is worse in Mexico, but why?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I don't see any conspiracy theories or rampant latino hate here. Perhaps you'd like to refrain from lying your ass off on this board, for a change?
    So you are saying that bringing up a right wing idea of Mexico being a failed state or near failed state in a discussion on a pandemic that happens to have started in Mexico (as far as we know), is some how relevant to the subject? How exactly is it relevant that drug gangs and the government are in a defacto war in the country? Have the drug gangs infected the population by breeding many chickens and pigs? Have the government forced people to live near or with pigs and chickens? How exactly is it relevant?

    And since it is in no way relevant to a discussion on how and why Mexico is harder hit, then one can only surmise that the OP has some sort of "issue" with Mexico and hence latinos.. I mean he all but admits it by agreeing with the idiotic idea that Mexico is a near failed state....so I ask again, what is the relevance of the Meixcan drug war to the pandemic that has supposedly started in Mexico City?
    PeteEU

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    Re: Swine flu is worse in Mexico, but why?

    Quote Originally Posted by GarzaUK View Post
    So has Pat Robertson came out and said this is God's wrath on Mexico for bringing drugs and crime on God's favourite country in the whole wide world - the US yet?
    Give it time.. and dont forget that the Mexicans are closet socialist who support Islamofasicm and such.. even though it has zero relevancy to the topic. Oh and it is all Clinton's and Obama's fault.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Swine flu is worse in Mexico, but why?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    So you are saying that bringing up a right wing idea of Mexico being a failed state or near failed state in a discussion on a pandemic that happens to have started in Mexico (as far as we know), is some how relevant to the subject? How exactly is it relevant that drug gangs and the government are in a defacto war in the country? Have the drug gangs infected the population by breeding many chickens and pigs? Have the government forced people to live near or with pigs and chickens? How exactly is it relevant?

    And since it is in no way relevant to a discussion on how and why Mexico is harder hit, then one can only surmise that the OP has some sort of "issue" with Mexico and hence latinos.. I mean he all but admits it by agreeing with the idiotic idea that Mexico is a near failed state....so I ask again, what is the relevance of the Meixcan drug war to the pandemic that has supposedly started in Mexico City?

    Do you mean "right wing" groups like Daily Kos??
    The Mexican state will plunge into chaos within the next twenty four months.

    This will certainly come to pass upon the death of the Cantarell oil field. The series of events will likely be hastened by the collapsing U.S. housing market reducing remittances from guest workers in the United States coupled with skyrocketing food costs due to the United States' ethanol binge.
    or do you mean "right wing" media like NPR?

    Drug-related violence in Mexico is escalating at an alarming rate and threatening the government of President Felipe Calderon.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Swine flu is worse in Mexico, but why?

    This best selling book might see a rise in sales. This is author John Barry of New Orleans who also wrote Rising Tide. Somehow my family knows him.

    The book is awesome.



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    Re: Swine flu is worse in Mexico, but why?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    So you are saying that bringing up a right wing idea of Mexico being a failed state or near failed state in a discussion on a pandemic that happens to have started in Mexico (as far as we know), is some how relevant to the subject? How exactly is it relevant that drug gangs and the government are in a defacto war in the country? Have the drug gangs infected the population by breeding many chickens and pigs? Have the government forced people to live near or with pigs and chickens? How exactly is it relevant?
    It's relevant because it indicates the Mexico government to have a level of courage and political maturity not seen in, say, China during the SARS outbreak. It's relevant because it indicates the United States can have confidence that Mexico will continue to do what it can in terms of containing and mitigating this influenza outbreak. It's relevant because it means that the US is under less pressure to interdict travel to and from Mexico, which eases the burdens on the US. It's relevant because disease outbreaks of this nature are a public health crisis, will tax any nation's public health infrastructure, and can easily aggravate stresses on a nation's government. It's relevant because it means that, as bad as the narco-violence in Northern Mexico is, the government still has the political capital to take command of this public health crisis and address it in a responsible fashion. It's relevant because not all of the cases are in Mexico City--cases have been reported as far north as Mexicali, which is not only near the US border but also has been a prime battleground between the drug cartels.

    As my profile shows, I live in Houston, Texas. A good many people in this city, including a number of those with whom I do business, have various ties and relationships within Mexico, both business and personal. When a contagious disease such as influenza erupts, it will spread along those ties and through those relationships--that is how bubonic plague spread through Europe in the Middle Ages, how the Ebola virus rampages through African communities now and again, how smallpox erupted in colonial North America and again in the United States in 1837-1838. Such is the nature of disease. How Mexico responds to this influenza outbreak has immediate relevance to me; had the disease erupted first in Quebec, Canada and I lived in, say, upstate New York or Michigan, Canada's responses would be of equal relevance, and Canada's lingering internal tensions arising from Francophone Quebec could easily impact how well that nation responded to such a crisis--and might prove surprisingly problematic, given Canada's seemingly endless flirtation with its own dissolution.

    China's handling--or rather, mishandling--of SARS in 2003 allowed that contagion to spread farther and claim more lives than might have otherwise been the case. By ignoring that crisis, China added to every nation's burden in protecting their own populations.

    Zimbabwe's recent cholera epidemic is a grim example of what can happen when government lacks the will and/or the infrastructure to address epidemic disease.

    So, just as I draw real concern from Mexico's narco-violence and what impact it has on Texas, I draw real comfort from Mexico's response to this influenza outbreak, and what impact that has on Texas. If that to you represents hatred of Latinos, then you are sadly and greatly deluded.

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    Re: Swine flu is worse in Mexico, but why?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Give it time.. and dont forget that the Mexicans are closet socialist who support Islamofasicm and such.. even though it has zero relevancy to the topic. Oh and it is all Clinton's and Obama's fault.
    Or, the world refuses to give into that most malignant of social diseases, liberal left-wing hatred, and real problems get met with real solutions:

    Most suspected flu patients in Mexico now healthy | Reuters

    "It's very important to act fast and take this seriously, but it's also very important to stay calm, cooperate with authorities and inform them of any cases that arise," he said during a meeting of health officials.
    Thanks to Duke for noting this article in another thread on the influenza outbreak.

    With luck, this influenza outbreak will prove to be a "flash in the pan", and if it does prove to be a flash in the pan, Calderon and the Mexican government will deserve the lion's share of the credit.

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    Re: Swine flu is worse in Mexico, but why?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    It's relevant because it indicates the Mexico government to have a level of courage and political maturity not seen in, say, China during the SARS outbreak. It's relevant because it indicates the United States can have confidence that Mexico will continue to do what it can in terms of containing and mitigating this influenza outbreak. It's relevant because it means that the US is under less pressure to interdict travel to and from Mexico, which eases the burdens on the US. It's relevant because disease outbreaks of this nature are a public health crisis, will tax any nation's public health infrastructure, and can easily aggravate stresses on a nation's government. It's relevant because it means that, as bad as the narco-violence in Northern Mexico is, the government still has the political capital to take command of this public health crisis and address it in a responsible fashion. It's relevant because not all of the cases are in Mexico City--cases have been reported as far north as Mexicali, which is not only near the US border but also has been a prime battleground between the drug cartels.
    Yes I agree on most of this, however again what does the narko war have to do with why "Swine flu is worse in Mexico?" I mean you seem to believe that Mexico is a failed state or on the verge of a failed state since you have stated so much, but what relevance does that have at all to why "Swine flu is worse in Mexico?"

    But the funny part is that if Mexico was a failed state (or going there) as you seem to believe, do you think that it could react in the way it has? So if we focus on the failed state bit, does their reaction not basicly prove they are not and not heading towards a failed state status.. and again what does it have to do with with why swine flue is worse in Mexico... which is the title of the thread. Narko terrorists using swine flu as a bio weapon against the US or something?

    As my profile shows, I live in Houston, Texas. A good many people in this city, including a number of those with whom I do business, have various ties and relationships within Mexico, both business and personal.
    And I live in Spain, the gate way to the rest of the Europe for most latin countries including Mexico, and of course the former colonial master. Dont you think I am worried too? We have our first confirmed case here. But I still dont say that Mexico is a "failed state" and worry about Mexico's responsiveness because of some drug war. Does that mean that if there is a drug war going on in a US state (which there probaly is to some extent) that then said state is a failed state too? Does it mean if a gang war breaks out in a major US city, that said city is a failed city? I know there is a gang war going on in my home country, does that mean it is a failed state or moving to failed state status? Of course not and it bears zero relevance to any epidemic.

    When a contagious disease such as influenza erupts, it will spread along those ties and through those relationships--that is how bubonic plague spread through Europe in the Middle Ages, how the Ebola virus rampages through African communities now and again, how smallpox erupted in colonial North America and again in the United States in 1837-1838. Such is the nature of disease.
    Yep and we have a flu epidemic every 10 years or so, costing thousands of lives. There was one in the 50s, one in the 60s and so on.

    How Mexico responds to this influenza outbreak has immediate relevance to me; had the disease erupted first in Quebec, Canada and I lived in, say, upstate New York or Michigan, Canada's responses would be of equal relevance, and Canada's lingering internal tensions arising from Francophone Quebec could easily impact how well that nation responded to such a crisis--and might prove surprisingly problematic, given Canada's seemingly endless flirtation with its own dissolution.
    LOL give me a break. A country that is not only democratic, but has a somewhat semi stable democratic history, is suddenly going to be a "failed state" just because of problems internal? Does that mean that the US is a failed state because of the political troubles between the Democrats and Republicans? Or it is a failed state because some in Texas want to cede from the Union?

    Of course any and all aspects of Mexican life has an influence on how they react to such things, but a freaking drug war and a hypothetical pipedream by the American right about a possible failed state in a country that they have issues with, is not one the major factors that need be mentioned when discussing why "Swine flu is worse in Mexico", which is the intent of this discussion.. or did you miss-right the title of the thread?

    The correct things are things like population density, social aspects and traditional aspects, pollution, and so on. Mabye after number of albino patients in the area we can start discussing the narko war, but surely not before the most logical reasons.

    China's handling--or rather, mishandling--of SARS in 2003 allowed that contagion to spread farther and claim more lives than might have otherwise been the case. By ignoring that crisis, China added to every nation's burden in protecting their own populations.
    I agree, but does that mean that China is a failed state? Or there are social and traditional and political issues that resulted in this mishandling? Things like pride, arrogance, corruption, population density, social aspects, traditions.. how important are they compared to the failed state arguments? There is after all an insurgency in areas of China against Chinese rule.

    Zimbabwe's recent cholera epidemic is a grim example of what can happen when government lacks the will and/or the infrastructure to address epidemic disease.
    At least here we could agree that it was a failed state, yet you did not mention it...

    So, just as I draw real concern from Mexico's narco-violence and what impact it has on Texas
    As you should, but again what does it have to do with why "swine flu is worse in Mexico"?

    I draw real comfort from Mexico's response to this influenza outbreak, and what impact that has on Texas.
    It is the same response as any other nation is expected to have done that do not have self serving morons ruling it. Flu is a season thing and can pop up everywhere, so containing it is damn hard.

    If that to you represents hatred of Latinos, then you are sadly and greatly deluded.
    Again, what does the narko war have to do with "Swine flu is worse in Mexico"? Are the narko people sending infected people across the border or something?

    Now you might not have intentionally wanted to go that way, but you have to admit that it is a poor title if you in fact wanted to discuss the narko war vs swine flu angle...

    Let me remind you... Mexico City.. population 26 million people is the centre of the breakout. That is why it is worse in Mexico.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Swine flu is worse in Mexico, but why?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Not necessarily. Nature has a random chance probability in mixing viral DNA affecting primarily different species. We really don't see viruses or bacteria that incorporate DNA specific to harming different species all molded into one new super bug. Labs however, can specifically splice in genes for specific symptoms and to target specific species. Like taking the worst of several viruses.
    Nonsense.

    Flus typically gain virulence by passing through ducks and pigs and back to humans a few times before they really become noticeable. It's a standard path, really.

    Also....gee, what lab was working in Haskell, Kansas in 1918 to produce what became known as the "Spanish" influenza that killed so many? Every infected cell in the body has a chance of spewing out mutated flu viruses, and they typically create about 10,000 new copies of the virus per cell.

    Do the math.

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