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Thread: Former KKK leader detained in Prague

  1. #61
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    Re: Former KKK leader detained in Prague

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    Yes, because people would start shouting and be violent, that would be against public order.
    "Thousands" could also apply to a radio audience.

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    Re: Former KKK leader detained in Prague

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    "Hate speech" laws are nothing more than criminalizing dissent. Which of the following statements would you consider hate speech, and on what basis:

    A. "Blacks are 8 times more likely to commit murder than whites in the United States." (The actual figure is 8 times more likely) No.

    B. "Blacks are 100 times more likely to commit murder than whites in the United States." (The actual figure is 8 times more likely, but the person making the statement believes that 100 times is correct) No

    C. "Blacks are 100 times more likely to commit murder than whites in the United States." (The actual figure is 8 times more likely, but the person making the statement is exaggerating and can't be bothered to learn the correct figure) No

    D. "Blacks are 100 times more likely to commit murder than whites in the United States." (The actual figure is 8 times more likely, and the person making the statement knows perfectly well that 100 times is incorrect) No

    E. "Blacks are much more violent than whites." Perhaps, depends.

    F. "Blacks are much more likely to commit murder than whites." No.

    G. "Blacks are much more likely to commit murder than whites...maybe it's in their genes." Maybe.

    H. "Blacks are murderers." Yes.

    I. "The government should severely punish all black murderers." Perhaps. I'd rather the person said i want the government to punish all criminals.
    Disclaimer: It is just my opinion on my interpretation of the laws, i am in no means a judge.

    Keep in mind 'hate speech' is generally accepted as meaning 'speech intended to degrade based on gender, race or sexuality' or 'Bigoted speech attacking or disparaging a social or ethnic group or a member of such a group' and i'm using that definition as a foundation for my answers. Assuming some are facts [It's not but lets say so] and the others being opinion with that intention to spread racial tension

    Last edited by Laila; 04-25-09 at 06:45 PM.


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    Re: Former KKK leader detained in Prague

    Read the article.
    They arrested him on the charge that perhaps he implied the Holocaust did not occur in a BOOK he wrote.
    I wonder if they will burn the book afterwards.
    IOW its ridiculous and the irony is dripping.

    ...
    Blaming the USA or Allies for post occupation policies that every nation in Europe could have changed now 5 bazillion times over is as ridiculous as the African complaining about how they can't manage to do anything ever since the nasty Europeans modernized them.

    On the flip side the Nazis where not unpopular in their day and their message is resonating in Europe again.
    The banking problems in Europe and expected unemployment levels are likely to cause a significant shift in European politics...not simply leaders/governments but the base ideology of nations.

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    Re: Former KKK leader detained in Prague

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    When people walk naked in the street in the USA they are arrested. Is it so wrong to do that?
    Its not really wrong in my mind.

    I don't care if people say hurtful or untrue things.

    I think if we are going to start arresting people for being lairs lets start with politicians first.
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    Re: Former KKK leader detained in Prague

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Its not really wrong in my mind.

    I don't care if people say hurtful or untrue things.

    I think if we are going to start arresting people for being lairs lets start with politicians first.
    He is not arrested "because he is a liar"!
    Look at a similar trial

    With regard to Mr Garaudy’s convictions for disputing the existence of crimes against humanity, the Court referred to Article 17 (prohibition of abuse of rights), which was intended to prevent people from inferring from the Convention any right to engage in activities or perform acts aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth in the Convention. Thus, no one could rely on the Convention as a basis for engaging in any act that was contrary to its provisions. Having analysed the book concerned, the Court found that, as the domestic courts had shown, the applicant had adopted revisionist theories and systematically disputed the existence of the crimes against humanity which the Nazis had committed against the Jewish community. There could be no doubt that disputing the existence of clearly established historical events, such as the Holocaust, did not constitute historical research akin to a quest for the truth. The real purpose of such a work was to rehabilitate the National-Socialist regime and, as a consequence, to accuse the victims of the Holocaust of falsifying history. Disputing the existence of crimes against humanity was, therefore, one of the most severe forms of racial defamation and of incitement to hatred of Jews. The denial or rewriting of this type of historical fact undermined the values on which the fight against racism and anti-Semitism was based and constituted a serious threat to public order. It was incompatible with democracy and human rights and its proponents indisputably had designs that fell into the category of prohibited aims under Article 17 of the Convention. The Court found that, since the applicant’s book, taken as a whole, displayed a marked tendency to revisionism, it ran counter to the fundamental values of the Convention, namely justice and peace. The applicant had sought to deflect Article 10 of the Convention from its intended purpose by using his right to freedom of expression to fulfil ends that were contrary to the Convention. Consequently, the Court held that he could not rely on Article 10 and declared his complaint incompatible with the Convention.

    As regards Mr Garaudy’s convictions for racial defamation and incitement to racial hatred, the Court found that they could constitute an interference with his right to freedom of expression. The interference was prescribed by the Act of 29 July 1881 and had at least two legitimate aims: "the prevention of disorder or crime" and "the protection of the reputation or rights of others". However, for the same reasons as those set out above and in view of the overall revisionist tone of the work, the Court had serious doubts as to whether the passages on which his convictions were based could qualify for protection under Article 10. While criticism of State policy, whether of Israel or any other State, indisputably came within that Article, the Court noted that the applicant had not confined himself to such criticism: his writings had a clear racist objective. However, the Court did not consider it necessary to decide that issue, as it found that the reasons given by the domestic courts for convicting the applicant were relevant and sufficient and the interference with his right to respect for his freedom of expression was "necessary in a democratic society", in accordance with Article 10 § 2 of the Convention. Accordingly, the Court declared this complaint ill-founded.
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/archiv...post1057494246

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    Re: Former KKK leader detained in Prague

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    He is not arrested "because he is a liar"!
    Look at a similar trial



    http://www.debatepolitics.com/archiv...post1057494246
    That's all well and good but it doesn't change the fact that people are arrested and put on trial for something said. Europe has taken an appalling stance against free speech, freedom of thought, and human rights in general when attempting to curb the right to express an idea openly. Europe is weak and failing when it can't even socially handle idiots who deny the holocaust without calling in the goon squads to criminilize stupidity.

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    Re: Former KKK leader detained in Prague

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    He is not arrested "because he is a liar"!
    Look at a similar trial
    Sure he was. In this instance they have criminalized saying The Holocaust didn't happen.

    Pure stupidity on their parts.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Former KKK leader detained in Prague

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    That's all well and good but it doesn't change the fact that people are arrested and put on trial for something said. Europe has taken an appalling stance against free speech, freedom of thought, and human rights in general when attempting to curb the right to express an idea openly. Europe is weak and failing when it can't even socially handle idiots who deny the holocaust without calling in the goon squads to criminilize stupidity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Sure he was. In this instance they have criminalized saying The Holocaust didn't happen.

    Pure stupidity on their parts.
    1) No, you didn't read what I posted. They are not condemned because of what they say, but because of the consequences of what they say (threatening the public order by rehabilitating the nazis and inciting hatred towards Jews)

    __________________________________________________ _____________

    2) Read the trial and answer their arguments!

    Show me that it is not a "serious threat to public order"!

    Show me that it is not "incompatible with democracy and human rights"!

    Show me that "two legitimate aims: "the prevention of disorder or crime" and "the protection of the reputation or rights of others"" are not legitimate aims!

    __________________________________________________ _____

    3) Oh, and it's funny to see that when a human right is (thought to be) not respected abroad (in this case in Europe), everyone says it is bad, but when the same human rights (...the right not to be tortured) is violated in the USA, everyone seems to think that it is necessary!!
    Last edited by bub; 04-28-09 at 10:33 AM.

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    Re: Former KKK leader detained in Prague

    Why do European governments seem to think their people are incapable of spotting the lunacy of these revisionists and holocaust deniers? Do your governments have that little faith in their people to decide whats right and wrong, that they feel the need to squelch free speech and expression?
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

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    Re: Former KKK leader detained in Prague

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    Why do European governments seem to think their people are incapable of spotting the lunacy of these revisionists and holocaust deniers? Do your governments have that little faith in their people to decide whats right and wrong, that they feel the need to squelch free speech and expression?
    maybe because the Holocaust hapenned right here 60 years ago!

    but maybe it's also because they feel guilty about that, and make laws about it as a sign of good will towards the Jews...just like when Sarkozy apologized for slavery and colonisation

    and also...don't be too optimistic with the intelligence of the people...if 10% of the Americans still think that Obama is Muslim, they may also believe that the Holocaust was a myth
    Last edited by bub; 04-28-09 at 11:39 AM.

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