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Thread: Former KKK leader detained in Prague

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    Re: Former KKK leader detained in Prague

    Quote Originally Posted by chevydriver1123 View Post
    HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA, nice for the Czechs to take this piece of human garbage off our hands.

    WEAR ABC 3 :: International News
    What I find funny is that the article makes sure to mention David Duke was a former Republican lawmaker but fails to note that he started as a Democrat lawmaker.

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    Re: Former KKK leader detained in Prague

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    There is no first amendment in Europe. We have never had and never will have the freedom to say whatever we want.

    that is not true

    Article 10 - expression

    Article 10 provides the right to freedom of expression, subject to certain restrictions that are "in accordance with law" and "necessary in a democratic society". This right includes the freedom to hold opinions, and to receive and impart information and ideas.
    European Convention on Human Rights - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    Re: Former KKK leader detained in Prague

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    One question... would calling someone a N*gg*r in front of thousands count as an offense?

    yes or no?

    .
    Yes, because people would start shouting and be violent, that would be against public order.

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    Re: Former KKK leader detained in Prague

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I don't agree with hate speech laws. They violate mans natural rights, something I believe everyone has.

    I don''t care how many hurt feelings there are, the guy didn't really do anything wrong to anyone.

    He's just an incredible douche bag. That is not a crime.
    When people walk naked in the street in the USA they are arrested. Is it so wrong to do that?

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    Re: Former KKK leader detained in Prague

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    that is not true
    'subject to certain restrictions that are "in accordance with law"
    We have never had and never will have the freedom to say whatever we want.
    That is my point.
    Europe generally has restrictions whether it be hate speech or holocaust denial.
    To my knowledge, US does not.
    Last edited by Laila; 04-25-09 at 04:26 PM.


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    Re: Former KKK leader detained in Prague

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    That is my point.
    Europe generally has restrictions whether it be hate speech or holocaust denial.
    To my knowledge, US does not.
    Have you seen the conditions to restrict free speech?

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    Re: Former KKK leader detained in Prague

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    Have you seen the conditions to restrict free speech?
    I understand UK's but i admit i know little about alot of European countries take on it. Care to tell me?


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    Re: Former KKK leader detained in Prague

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    I understand UK's but i admit i know little about alot of European countries take on it. Care to tell me?
    I think that there are 3 conditions: the restriction

    -> must be proportional
    -> must be necessary in a democratic society
    -> must have a legitimate goal (such as protecting privacy, presumption of innocence, preventing disorders, preventing crimes...)

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/archiv...post1057494246



    Furthermore, it is not true that there is no limitation in the freedom of speech in the USA: the patriot act reduces it, and copyright laws forbid people to say/write whatever they want, and words like nigger or ****er are systematically censored
    Last edited by bub; 04-25-09 at 05:07 PM.

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    Re: Former KKK leader detained in Prague

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Well, you might not have laws against it, but there has been a collective denial of the truth for generations on some of those. Even today, you would be hard pressed for a right winger to admit that the US committed genocide against the native American population.
    I think 95% of Americans of every political ideology would acknowledge that.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU
    It dont always need to take laws for a population to be in total denial of past misdeeds. Look at the Japanese and their WW2 history. Look at the Turks and the Armenian genocide.. look at certain politicians in Rwanda today who blame for the genocide but we all know that they participated in it as well. Denial can be a very strong and dangerous thing.
    So what? If they're wrong, then the people who feel passionately about it will eventually die off and be replaced by generations who weren't personally affected by it and don't have as much of a stake in covering up the truth. As long as the version of events in the history books is accurate, there is nothing to worry about. Holocaust deniers can't just magically destroy the overwhelming evidence that the Holocaust happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU
    We have seen time and time again situations where someone has claimed something and it has stuck as fact, regardless of the truth. Now in most cases it has not had any huge consequences, but in certain cases it has. In recent history we have the famous WMD, and we have the Saddam and links to Al Q, and we have the Gulf of Tomkin incident. Falsehoods can have dire consequences if pushed to the extreme and then being accepted as "fact". Even today you have considerably number of people in the US who actually believe that Saddam was behind 9/11.. are they stupid sure, but that does not change the fact that they believe what some people of "power and influence" have said.
    So what? Are you saying that it should be illegal to claim that Saddam and al-Qaeda had links? Are you saying that it should be illegal to claim that Iraq had WMDs? Are you saying that it should be illegal to claim that the Gulf of Tonkin incident actually occured as the US government claimed?

    Allowing governments to write the history books is positively Orwellian. If you allow that, then what would stop the LBJ Administration from making it illegal to DENY the Gulf of Tonkin incident? What would stop the Bush Administration from making it illegal to DENY that Iraq and al-Qaeda had connections? The truth of those events will be accurately reflected in the vast majority of history books...the last thing we need is for government to take sides and make dissent a criminal offense.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU
    Now in the case of holocaust denial we have 2 factors at least at play.

    For one we have laws put in place by a 3rd party, namely the victors of WW2, of which the US was a key member.
    It's been nearly 70 years. I doubt the US is going to throw a fit if countries repeal those laws in favor of free speech, seeing how we don't have those laws ourselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU
    Secondly we have nations where the atrocities of WW2 hit very hard and it is often human nature to be in denial of such things even with proof after proof. We have the American Indian example and the Japanese WW2 example or the Turkish Armenian example.
    Then why make it a criminal offense to follow "human nature" when no one is being harmed?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU
    Now in such cases I would be all for having laws in place to punish people who actively spread lies and misinformation in order to press an aura of denial of past deeds. After all the saying goes.. If you dont understand history then you are doomed to repeat it... and frankly I would rather not.
    Who determines what "lies and misinformation" can be punished? The government? I hear the North Koreans have that down to a science. Maybe the EU can take some lessons from them.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU
    And lets not forget, in the US at one point it was a crime to be a communist or have communist ideals.. well in fact just being accused of it was enough to get you convicted once.
    Actually it wasn't a crime persay...they were just persecuted. There were a few anti-communist laws, but they were unconstitutional.

    And you're forgetting that that's not a chapter of history Americans are proud of, so comparing it to your Holocaust denial laws seems counterproductive.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU
    But in this case, he broke the law.. he goes to jail. Jaywalking is not illegal in most of Europe, yet in the US you can get fined and thrown in jail. Does that mean that because I come from Europe I can not be punished for jaywalking? No of course not, but I still find the whole idea idiotic.
    I don't think anyone is disputing that it's illegal in those countries. The question is SHOULD it be illegal.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 04-25-09 at 05:13 PM.
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    Re: Former KKK leader detained in Prague

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    No.
    I do not pick and choose.

    Slippery slope but balance is everything and generally we are doing an all right job imo.
    I support laws against hate speech.
    "Hate speech" laws are nothing more than criminalizing dissent. Which of the following statements would you consider hate speech, and on what basis:

    A. "Blacks are 8 times more likely to commit murder than whites in the United States." (The actual figure is 8 times more likely)

    B. "Blacks are 100 times more likely to commit murder than whites in the United States." (The actual figure is 8 times more likely, but the person making the statement believes that 100 times is correct)

    C. "Blacks are 100 times more likely to commit murder than whites in the United States." (The actual figure is 8 times more likely, but the person making the statement is exaggerating and can't be bothered to learn the correct figure)

    D. "Blacks are 100 times more likely to commit murder than whites in the United States." (The actual figure is 8 times more likely, and the person making the statement knows perfectly well that 100 times is incorrect)

    E. "Blacks are much more violent than whites."

    F. "Blacks are much more likely to commit murder than whites."

    G. "Blacks are much more likely to commit murder than whites...maybe it's in their genes."

    H. "Blacks are murderers."

    I. "The government should severely punish all black murderers."


    So which of those statements are hate speech? And who is the GOVERNMENT to determine that? Perhaps they can form a committee to determine the "correct" view of all historical, sociological, religious, and racial issues. And anyone who disagrees with the committee will be thrown in jail for hate speech.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 04-25-09 at 05:23 PM.
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