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Thread: UN torture envoy: US must prosecute Bush lawyers

  1. #81
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    Re: UN torture envoy: US must prosecute Bush lawyers

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
    Yes, that is absolutely what we want. No question about it. Should we torture? No. Did we torture? Yes according to both standing US and international definitions and law. Should the people who ordered it be tried for war crimes? Yes. We are America, we are better than those we are fighting but unfortunately some of you don't act like it.
    This is the heaviest bag of bull **** people carry in America. During the Cold War we incited rebellion inside democracies that was leaning towards the Soviet house and temporarily supported dictators that leaned towards us. And during WWII we bombed out whole cities of civilians. And what did our enemies do? Incite rebellions, support dictators, and bomb out civilian cities?

    Oh, but this about the "torture" thing, right? Our enemies beat, bludgen, and electricute prisoners. Some prisoners find themselves without heads. And religious rights? Find a Bible in a Muslim prison. For that matter, how about a western diet? But waterboarding a few of our enemy makes us like them? I am so sick of the bleeding heart mentality that seeks to pick and choose its stage of morality when it fits his mood.

    The mission to protect the masses has never been one of perfect morality. It cannot be. This is not a Hollywood movie. The enemy does get shot in the back. Collateral damage is weighed and is a reality of war. The enemy prisoner gets treated uncivily. And prisoners captured during the Cold War and other wars were treated as hostile information holders. But no matter our function or methods, we have never done to prisoners as they have done to ours. Your attitude that America is and has been some pristine, stick-up-the-ass, prude on its path towards righteousness is ignorant. I can only guess that you do know better, but merely choose to hate on Bush while keeping the rest of American history seperate.

    When was the last time somebody dropped two atomic bombs over two seperate civilian cities? 1945? Oh...but we are not like those we fight? War is about survival. Not manners and certainly its not based on how many gold stars one receives on his path of death and destruction.

    And by the way, as far as your "international law".....are you aware that it was unlawful to do anything in Kosovo and that genocide isn't genocide until the UN say's so? And that until it say's so, the international community is not obligated to act to save a single soul? Wonder why the UN has such a hard time labeling the obvious cases as such? Because it ensures that the use of apathy and ignorance is "legal."

    Some of us act as if we live in the real world. We are America because we can play the game better than our enemies (and friends) while holding on to a shred of decency and morality. But this doesn't mean that when we take a walk in the enemies gutter that we are like them. Do our military men come back haunted and murderous? Do they seek to drop atomic bombs on everybody? Do they seek to stick prisoners un pikes or on the rack? We are America not just because we have proven that we can get just as violent and even more convicted to our goals than our enemies, but that we can do so and then put it behind us as we get back on the path we pave.

    Self-righteous attitudes are for the protected. Not for the protectors.
    Last edited by MSgt; 05-05-09 at 12:28 PM.

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    Re: UN torture envoy: US must prosecute Bush lawyers

    From one Marine to another, you layed it out there for all to see. Maybe, just maybe, the people that think waterboarding is such a terrible thing, will read your post and then open their eyes. Hell, if any of the candy asses went through P.I. they would think waterboarding is too easy on the rag tag bunch of idiots our forces are fighting. Good post Gunny.

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    Re: UN torture envoy: US must prosecute Bush lawyers

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
    Yes, that is absolutely what we want. No question about it. Should we torture? No.
    Sure, if the captive is suspected of withholding information that could save American lives. No problems there whatsoever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
    Did we torture?
    No, we made them uncomfortable.

    Since we didn't avulse any heads, we're far more civilized than the people we're fighting, and that's all that really matters.

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    Re: UN torture envoy: US must prosecute Bush lawyers

    Quote Originally Posted by Catman View Post
    From one Marine to another, you layed it out there for all to see. Maybe, just maybe, the people that think waterboarding is such a terrible thing, will read your post and then open their eyes. Hell, if any of the candy asses went through P.I. they would think waterboarding is too easy on the rag tag bunch of idiots our forces are fighting. Good post Gunny.
    Don't hold your breath on this one; they are hardly interested in the debate about what constitutes torture as they are impugning their political enemies in the court of public opinion.

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    Thumbs up Re: UN torture envoy: US must prosecute Bush lawyers

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    This is the heaviest bag of bull **** people carry in America. During the Cold War we incited rebellion inside democracies that was leaning towards the Soviet house and temporarily supported dictators that leaned towards us. And during WWII we bombed out whole cities of civilians. And what did our enemies do? Incite rebellions, support dictators, and bomb out civilian cities?

    Oh, but this about the "torture" thing, right? Our enemies beat, bludgen, and electricute prisoners. Some prisoners find themselves without heads. And religious rights? Find a Bible in a Muslim prison. For that matter, how about a western diet? But waterboarding a few of our enemy makes us like them? I am so sick of the bleeding heart mentality that seeks to pick and choose its stage of morality when it fits his mood.

    The mission to protect the masses has never been one of perfect morality. It cannot be. This is not a Hollywood movie. The enemy does get shot in the back. Collateral damage is weighed and is a reality of war. The enemy prisoner gets treated uncivily. And prisoners captured during the Cold War and other wars were treated as hostile information holders. But no matter our function or methods, we have never done to prisoners as they have done to ours. Your attitude that America is and has been some pristine, stick-up-the-ass, prude on its path towards righteousness is ignorant. I can only guess that you do know better, but merely choose to hate on Bush while keeping the rest of American history seperate.

    When was the last time somebody dropped two atomic bombs over two seperate civilian cities? 1945? Oh...but we are not like those we fight? War is about survival. Not manners and certainly its not based on how many gold stars one receives on his path of death and destruction.

    And by the way, as far as your "international law".....are you aware that it was unlawful to do anything in Kosovo and that genocide isn't genocide until the UN say's so? And that until it say's so, the international community is not obligated to act to save a single soul? Wonder why the UN has such a hard time labeling the obvious cases as such? Because it ensures that the use of apathy and ignorance is "legal."

    Some of us act as if we live in the real world. We are America because we can play the game better than our enemies (and friends) while holding on to a shred of decency and morality. But this doesn't mean that when we take a walk in the enemies gutter that we are like them. Do our military men come back haunted and murderous? Do they seek to drop atomic bombs on everybody? Do they seek to stick prisoners un pikes or on the rack? We are America not just because we have proven that we can get just as violent and even more convicted to our goals than our enemies, but that we can do so and then put it behind us as we get back on the path we pave.

    Self-righteous attitudes are for the protected. Not for the protectors.
    God damn and hell yeah!!!!! About time!
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: UN torture envoy: US must prosecute Bush lawyers

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    Self-righteous attitudes are for the protected. Not for the protectors.
    At ease private. You sound like Jack Nicholson, in A Few Good Men, as the egotistical, maniacal Colonel Nathan R. Jessep. Talk about bull ****!

    I see looking at the big picture, of America's place in the world, takes a back seat for you to flexing your muscles on a prisoner. THIS is the attitude that is wrong in much of our military. Maybe when the younger generation replaces the old goats, intelligence in our military will carry the biggest stick. Wow!
    Thank You Barack Obama for Restoring Honor To The Presidency.
    President Obama will rank as one of our greatest presidents!

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    Re: UN torture envoy: US must prosecute Bush lawyers

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    At ease private. You sound like Jack Nicholson, in A Few Good Men, as the egotistical, maniacal Colonel Nathan R. Jessep. Talk about bull ****!

    I see looking at the big picture, of America's place in the world, takes a back seat for you to flexing your muscles on a prisoner. THIS is the attitude that is wrong in much of our military. Maybe when the younger generation replaces the old goats, intelligence in our military will carry the biggest stick. Wow!
    If GW Bush was hung from a meat hook on a pole, would you be satisfied?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: UN torture envoy: US must prosecute Bush lawyers

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    If GW Bush was hung from a meat hook on a pole, would you be satisfied?
    I don't want him killed. I want him to be tried, convicted and jailed for the crimes he committed as President. Is that so much to ask?
    Thank You Barack Obama for Restoring Honor To The Presidency.
    President Obama will rank as one of our greatest presidents!

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    Re: UN torture envoy: US must prosecute Bush lawyers

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    I don't want him killed. I want him to be tried, convicted and jailed for the crimes he committed as President. Is that so much to ask?
    Got some evidence? No one else seems to.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  10. #90
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    Re: UN torture envoy: US must prosecute Bush lawyers

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    Do our military men come back haunted and murderous?
    Yes, some do as what happened at ft. Bragg.

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    Do they seek to drop atomic bombs on everybody?
    As witnessed by some message boards, yes, some do.

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    Do they seek to stick prisoners un pikes or on the rack?
    And as above post some do.

    What are your thoughts to that?

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