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Thread: UN torture envoy: US must prosecute Bush lawyers

  1. #61
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    Re: UN torture envoy: "I'm a partisan hack and I hate America"

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    I answered your question. What's the matter, can't read?
    Your only response was, "You wouldn't recognize a 'credible' link if it bit you in the butt." That only answered my request for a credible link. And your answer was, in effect, "No. I don't have a credible link. All I have is this piece of sh*t from the McClatchy News Service, which is a propaganda bureau for Team Obama. If I had something from a credible source like the Associated Press, I'd post it. But I don't."

    Here's the question that you've been dodging. Please stop bobbing, weaving, shucking and jiving, and give me a straight answer for the first time in your life:

    "By the way: in your opinion, what is the harshest interrogation method that should be legal for CIA interrogators to use on a known terrorist mastermind, who is responsible for the murders of thousands of American civilians?"

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    Advisor Midwest Lib's Avatar
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    Re: UN torture envoy: US must prosecute Bush lawyers

    Quote Originally Posted by Polynikes View Post
    Do you have access to intelligence the rest of don't? How do you know mostly (which by it definition means a majority) innocent ones were tortured? You use the world probably and mostly quite often. How about sticking to what can be proven and isn‘t skeptical nonsense..

    If there was a Debate Politics tribunal, you would be found guilty of the following:

    Argumentum ad ignorantiam:

    Argumentum ad ignorantiam means "argument from ignorance." The fallacy occurs when it's argued that something must be true, simply because it hasn't been proved false. Or, equivalently, when it is argued that something must be false because it hasn't been proved true.

    Plurium interrogationum

    This fallacy occurs when someone demands a simple (or simplistic) answer to a complex question

    Tu quoque

    This is the famous "you too" fallacy. It occurs if you argue that an action is acceptable because your opponent has performed it. For instance:

    "You're just being randomly abusive."

    "So? You've been abusive too."

    Atheism: Logic & Fallacies

    I also draw from your quote that you assume that the administration and military intelligence was so incompetent that if they weren't in fact getting any good intelligence they would've kept torturing just in case, and not stopped and thought "Hey, this isn't working, we have to try something else."
    I like the link to the logic and fallacies. It's something I try to bring up in many of my posts. However, it's also how most people on both sides argue. Things get heated, and things turn into name calling with talking points attached and nothing gets accomplished. NOW, for my feelings on the issue. I DO believe that the lawyers did go outside the bounds of the law, and I DO believe that what the Bush admin did was against US and international law. I, however, do not believe it would be in our countries best interest to go after prior administrations. I think it would set a very bad precedent that would cause problems for years to come. With a two party system, people are going to get pissed at the other side, and regardless of "facts" or "allegations", the main things that will get dragged to trial are "emotion" and ""partisanship"...Not good for the judicial process. It's fairly unfortunate that it has to be this way, because I do feel that many involved (including Pelosi et al) need to pay some sort of retribution, but it would just be a slippery slope that we don't want to head down. Also, being as I can admit guilt on the left, it would be nice to see something equal on the otherside. Democrats are not the only ones to go after an opposing administration. I mean, Clinton did get impeached for lying about his infidelity. I don't mean to open a can of worms or even debate about that rights and wrongs of that, but just to prove that the right, as much as the left has a tendency to go after the opposing team.

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    Re: UN torture envoy: US must prosecute Bush lawyers

    The UN can go **** themselves.

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    Advisor Midwest Lib's Avatar
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    Re: UN torture envoy: US must prosecute Bush lawyers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    The UN can go **** themselves.
    Now THAT I can agree with. No balance of power whatsoever. This current UN is completely useless and needs to be trashed or completely overhauled.

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    Advisor Polynikes's Avatar
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    Re: UN torture envoy: US must prosecute Bush lawyers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    The UN can go **** themselves.
    Agreed, but wait until the transnationalist really pick up steam and the adoption of international law becomes the norm in the United States. It is not too far down the slope then to draw the logical conclusion that if the U.S signs into an agreement to abide by international law on U.S soil the resulting police force will be some variation of U.N 'police'

    The U.S is slowly handing over its sovereignty to the international community, much like what has happened in western Europe.
    "I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country." -Jefferson

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    Re: UN torture envoy: US must prosecute Bush lawyers

    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest Lib View Post
    Now THAT I can agree with. No balance of power whatsoever. This current UN is completely useless and needs to be trashed or completely overhauled.
    The US not only conceived of the UN, but finances it and hosts it. Regardless of the current leadership or disorganization, we are committed to our obligation as a UN member, and cannot choose when to ignore it.
    It is an obvious truth that not only the Bush lawyers, but the Bush administration must be held to account for their actions in a court of law. History demands it.

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    Re: UN torture envoy: US must prosecute Bush lawyers

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    The US not only conceived of the UN, but finances it and hosts it. Regardless of the current leadership or disorganization, we are committed to our obligation as a UN member, and cannot choose when to ignore it.
    America is beholden to the Constitution and nothing else. Acquiescing to the demands of a foreign body is an usurpation of American sovereignty.

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    Re: UN torture envoy: US must prosecute Bush lawyers

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    The US not only conceived of the UN, but finances it and hosts it. Regardless of the current leadership or disorganization, we are committed to our obligation as a UN member, and cannot choose when to ignore it.
    Hogwash.

    Nations gleefully disregard the UN all the time. It is at best an impolitic irrelevancy serving as a platform for anti-American spew (which probably explains the liberal love affair with the organization), and at worst a vehicle for perverting normal diplomatic relations among sovereign nations. As architected, it is as ineffective and impotent as Wilson's ill-fated League of Nations.

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    It is an obvious truth that not only the Bush lawyers, but the Bush administration must be held to account for their actions in a court of law. History demands it.
    It is not obvious. It is not truth.

    Moreover, history is a passive record of events. It demands nothing from any man.

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    Re: UN torture envoy: "I'm a partisan hack and I hate America"

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho Marx View Post
    Your only response was, "You wouldn't recognize a 'credible' link if it bit you in the butt." That only answered my request for a credible link. And your answer was, in effect, "No. I don't have a credible link. All I have is this piece of sh*t from the McClatchy News Service, which is a propaganda bureau for Team Obama. If I had something from a credible source like the Associated Press, I'd post it. But I don't."

    Here's the question that you've been dodging. Please stop bobbing, weaving, shucking and jiving, and give me a straight answer for the first time in your life:

    "By the way: in your opinion, what is the harshest interrogation method that should be legal for CIA interrogators to use on a known terrorist mastermind, who is responsible for the murders of thousands of American civilians?"
    How long are you going to keep up this act? I answered your question. I won't play this game with you. Either find it yourself (you can read, can't you?) or shut up. Your childishness is ridiculous.
    Thank You Barack Obama for Restoring Honor To The Presidency.
    President Obama will rank as one of our greatest presidents!

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    Re: UN torture envoy: US must prosecute Bush lawyers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    America is beholden to the Constitution and nothing else. Acquiescing to the demands of a foreign body is an usurpation of American sovereignty.
    Compliance with UN resolutions is not "acquiescing to the demands of a foreign body".

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