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U.S. Questions Pakistan’s Will to Stop Taliban

WillRockwell

WillRockwell

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As the Taliban tightened their hold over newly won territory, Pakistani politicians and American officials on Thursday sharply questioned the government’s willingness to deal with the insurgents and the Pakistani military’s decision to remain on the sidelines.
Some 400 to 500 insurgents consolidated control of their new prize, a strategic district called Buner, just 70 miles from the capital, Islamabad, setting up checkpoints and negotiating a truce similar to the one that allowed the Taliban to impose Islamic law in the neighboring Swat Valley.

As they did, Taliban contingents were seen Thursday in at least two other districts and areas still closer to the capital, according to Pakistani government officials and residents
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http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/24/world/asia/24pstan.html?_r=1&ref=global-home

This is directly the fault of the Bush administration, for not pursuing an objective in Afghanistan and instead, diverting US troops and assets into a needless war in Iraq. The destruction of the Taliban, AlQaeda and Osama binLaden was within our grasp, yet the Bush administration stopped the pursuit to begin its own misguided adventure. Bush and Cheney believed the world would revolve around their decisions, meanwhile their incompetence has created a situation in which terrorists are now in position to overthrow the government of a nuclear state.

This is a perfect example of how evil flows into a vacuum, how the real world of foreign policy was beyond the comprehension and capability of the Bush administration, and why Republicans cannot be trusted to supervise the use of the US military.
 
WillRockwell said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/24/world/asia/24pstan.html?_r=1&ref=global-home

This is directly the fault of the Bush administration, for not pursuing an objective in Afghanistan and instead, diverting US troops and assets into a needless war in Iraq. The destruction of the Taliban, AlQaeda and Osama binLaden was within our grasp, yet the Bush administration stopped the pursuit to begin its own misguided adventure. Bush and Cheney believed the world would revolve around their decisions, meanwhile their incompetence has created a situation in which terrorists are now in position to overthrow the government of a nuclear state.

This is a perfect example of how evil flows into a vacuum, how the real world of foreign policy was beyond the comprehension and capability of the Bush administration, and why Republicans cannot be trusted to supervise the use of the US military.
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You don't think that the massive shift in Us Policy and attitude towards Pakistan had anything to do with this do you?
 
WillRockwell said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/24/world/asia/24pstan.html?_r=1&ref=global-home

This is directly the fault of the Bush administration, for not pursuing an objective in Afghanistan and instead, diverting US troops and assets into a needless war in Iraq. The destruction of the Taliban, AlQaeda and Osama binLaden was within our grasp, yet the Bush administration stopped the pursuit to begin its own misguided adventure. Bush and Cheney believed the world would revolve around their decisions, meanwhile their incompetence has created a situation in which terrorists are now in position to overthrow the government of a nuclear state.

This is a perfect example of how evil flows into a vacuum, how the real world of foreign policy was beyond the comprehension and capability of the Bush administration, and why Republicans cannot be trusted to supervise the use of the US military.
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Stopped its persuit? Care to explain that?



And when is it Obama's fault? Please let me know when you will start holding him accountable.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Stopped its persuit? Care to explain that?



And when is it Obama's fault? Please let me know when you will start holding him accountable.
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The task force designed to capture Osama binLaden and high value Taliban leaders was disbanded as the Iraq war was begun. The irresponsibility of the Bush administration is matched only by the ignorance of its defenders.
 
MrVicchio said:
You don't think that the massive shift in Us Policy and attitude towards Pakistan had anything to do with this do you?
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Which shift are you referring to, and how does it affect the movement of the Taliban?
 
WillRockwell said:
The task force designed to capture Osama binLaden and high value Taliban leaders was disbanded as the Iraq war was begun. The irresponsibility of the Bush administration is matched only by the ignorance of its defenders.
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So did Obama put this "task force" back together yet?


How long do you give him before you start blaming him as well?
 
WillRockwell said:
Which shift are you referring to, and how does it affect the movement of the Taliban?
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Obama's support for Pakistan is not the same as Bush had, and his policy of attacking the Taliban openly on Pakistan soil has caused a big dust up with the Pakistani population.

I.E. Less support for the Government and attacks on their soil openly have helped to destabilize the Pakistani Government.

It's no coincident that with the change in US Policy the Taliban in that country have become more popular and more aggressive.

For eight years Bush treated Pakistan as a valued Ally and while the government had problems, never like it does now with the change in how we do business with them.

Yet you refuse to take this into account.
 
MrVicchio said:
Obama's support for Pakistan is not the same as Bush had, and his policy of attacking the Taliban openly on Pakistan soil has caused a big dust up with the Pakistani population.

I.E. Less support for the Government and attacks on their soil openly have helped to destabilize the Pakistani Government.

It's no coincident that with the change in US Policy the Taliban in that country have become more popular and more aggressive.

For eight years Bush treated Pakistan as a valued Ally and while the government had problems, never like it does now with the change in how we do business with them.

Yet you refuse to take this into account.
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Don't presume to guess what I take into account. The Bush administration ignored Pakistan and diverted its attention from Afghanistan, the Taliban, Alqaeda and Osama. It didn't care. It presumed that region of the world would wait for guidance. Like you, they presumed too much. Bush appeased the Taliban, and you approved that appeasement.
 
WillRockwell said:
Don't presume to guess what I take into account. The Bush administration ignored Pakistan and diverted its attention from Afghanistan, the Taliban, Alqaeda and Osama. It didn't care. It presumed that region of the world would wait for guidance. Like you, they presumed too much. Bush appeased the Taliban, and you approved that appeasement.
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Right, nice dodge.

Bush didn't ignore the Taliban, they took them out of Afghanistan. made Pakistan an ALLY int he war on terror...

Wait, hold up, you call all the support Bush gave Pakistan... ignoreing them?


And yet.. now... oh my,you really are incapable of seeing the problem here aren't you?

Bush "ignored Pakistan" and the Taliban was kept under control. Obama comes in and "pays attention to Pakistan" and now the government might fall, yes that really shows to be Bush's fault :roll:
 
WillRockwell said:
Don't presume to guess what I take into account. The Bush administration ignored Pakistan and diverted its attention from Afghanistan, the Taliban, Alqaeda and Osama. It didn't care. It presumed that region of the world would wait for guidance. Like you, they presumed too much. Bush appeased the Taliban, and you approved that appeasement.
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You might want to loosen the chinstrap of your DailyKOS Tin Foil Hat there.

More foreign aid for Pakistan - Pakistan News Service

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Bush 'approved' Pakistan attacks

Democracy Now! | Obama Continues Bush Policy of Deadly Air Strikes in Pakistan
 
GottaHurt said:
You might want to loosen the chinstrap of your DailyKOS Tin Foil Hat there.

More foreign aid for Pakistan - Pakistan News Service

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Bush 'approved' Pakistan attacks

Democracy Now! | Obama Continues Bush Policy of Deadly Air Strikes in Pakistan
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Yeh, Bush gave Pakistan $20 billion. Where do you suppose that money is now?
If Bush defeated the Taliban, how come they're about to overrun Pakistan? When will you admit your guy turned his back on a real enemy and allowed them to rebuild in Pakistan? We had the Taliban crippled and could have killed them off, then Bush and Cheney diverted our forces to Iraq. They made excuses about how the Taliban was finished, and then they ignored them while the Taliban grew and moved into Pakistan. You call that keeping us safe?
 
Harshaw said:
Oh, "appeased," did he?

:rofl

What did he give them?
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What did he give them? Where should I start? How about in April of 2001, when Bush gave the Taliban $43 million and became their main sponsor in Afghanistan? US CA: Column: Bush's Faustian Deal With The Taliban

By 2004 Bush was assuring believers like you that the Taliban was finished:
September 2004: “And as a result of the United States military, Taliban no longer is in existence. And the people of Afghanistan are now free.”
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But by leaving Afghanistan to chase WMD's in Iraq, Bush allowed the Taliban to return to full strength:
While coalition forces made significant early progress against the Taliban, President Bush allowed the situation to deteriorate after deciding to invade Iraq in 2003. Since the U.S. invasion of Iraq, troops and resources have been diverted from Afghanistan. Consequently, the situation in Afghanistan has deteriorated dramatically in recent years. Currently, the Taliban has a “permanent presence” in 75 percent of the country and exercises control over the country’s “political and military dynamic.”
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Bush Rewrites History: ?I Never Said The Taliban Was Eliminated?

Bush's pandering of the Taliban, his refusal to finish the job after Afghanistan was invaded, his sucking up to the weak and corrupt president of Pakistan, all set the stage for the Taliban takeover of Pakistan. Bush was a fool, and those who supported him, who still offer excuses for his incompetence, are bigger fools
 
One thing again needs to be stressed: Only about 20-40% of what the media calls Taliban are actually part of that organisation or part of organisations that are almost completely linked as to be almost the same.

When people talk about the Taliban taking over parts of Pakistan one has to dig deeper to see exactly who is taking over and exactly what is going on.
 
WillRockwell said:
Bush's pandering of the Taliban...
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Bush never pandered to the Taliban. He did however, pander to Musharrif who was playing a double-game. I do agree however that Bush took his eye off the remnants of the Taliban and their ISI support. The current crisis in Pakistan/Afghanistan is a direct result of Iraq.

Too little too late, Bush altered the rules of engagement in his previous presidential "findings" to allow US air/missile strikes within Pakistan and the insertion of US SOF on Pakistani soil.
 
Pakistan is as it is atm do to the lack luster abilitiy of their current government. Personified in President Asif Ali Zardari.
Example of his thought process- US failed to accomplish desired goals in Afghanistan: Zardari

Bush and Iraq have as much to do with it as China. IOW As in all things there is some effect... but they really don't matter.
////

I will say this on the general theme presented in the thread..

The Left in this nation and the "world" loved ..absolutely loved!..to declare this region the "REAL WAR". The people there the "REAL ENEMY". Obama and the left in general loved to spin tales about Pakistan all nefarious of course.

Well its put up or shut up time. Our enemies have called your claim out..I expect the left to support invading Pakistan no matter what the costs involved.
THIS IS THE REAL WAR!
..or we're you all full of BS like usual?

My bet is they will use the problems in Pakistan to villify both the Pakistanis and the Afghans as part of a general effort to run all Allied forces out of the region.
When the reality of a regional war in Pakistan sinks into the lefts psyche..they will jettison the entire region..



Their behavior is expected. Worse then that though is Obama's...
Pakistan is making a 3am call and Obama is off playing footsy with he lunatic fringe in another inane attempt to bash Bush.
 
Pakistan is already a failed state and a nuclear one at that.

Pakistan is financially bankrupt, and has ceeded control of the North-West Frontier Province (NWFP), the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA), and Balochistan Province to extremist forces. For all practical purposes, Pakistan is now a bifurcated nation split almost exactly in half. Islamabad is being encircled in a pincer movement from the west and north.

Since the government refuses to pull any military forces away from the border with India, the internal situation will certainly get worse in the coming months. The civilian government in Islamabad is only a few suicide-bombings away from falling.

No one has a clue how to save Pakistan from itself.
 
Tashah said:
Pakistan is already a failed state and a nuclear one at that.

Pakistan is financially bankrupt, and has ceeded control of the North-West Frontier Province (NWFP), the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA), and Balochistan Province to extremist forces. For all practical purposes, Pakistan is now a bifurcated nation split almost exactly in half. Islamabad is being encircled in a pincer movement from the west and north.

Since the government refuses to pull any military forces away from the border with India, the internal situation will certainly get worse in the coming months. The civilian government in Islamabad is only a few suicide-bombings away from falling.

No one has a clue how to save Pakistan from itself.
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The best way would be massive bombardment of the Taliban forces hiding in and around the SWAT region.

If the Taliban are dead, they cannot cause anymore grief.
 
WillRockwell said:
The task force designed to capture Osama binLaden and high value Taliban leaders was disbanded as the Iraq war was begun. The irresponsibility of the Bush administration is matched only by the ignorance of its defenders.
Click to expand...
You would know all about irresponsibility, being a liberal.
 
American said:
You would know all about irresponsibility, being a liberal.
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As usual, you "contribution" begins and ends with name-calling. That's all right, join the conversation at whatever level you are capable.
 
You claim Bush is responisble for all the evils int he world that you dream up. You claim Iraq is a failure well after its clearly not. You blame Bush and Iraq for everything..or the USA when you want a package deal.

Sorry but theres a line between common sense and conspiratorial claptrap.





Regardless..OBAMA..you got your way now your crowd is in power.
IOW Time to STEP UP.
It was easy to sit in the rear lip flapping disparities at those who had to make decisions.

Now its your crowd turn to make decisions.
So far all we have seen as Americans is a bunch of whiners bashing Bush.
If you all can't make the tough decisions then have Obama resign so we can get a real President instead of a joke.


Biden may have foot in mouth disease but he's 50000x better then Obama.
 
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