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Thread: Pelosi briefed on waterboarding in '02 [UPDATED]

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    Re: Pelosi briefed on waterboarding in '02 [UPDATED]

    Did any of you neo-cons ever think about this? What if Pelosi, and that small group, were indeed given a walk thru and maybe even given those specifics that you hope she was given re: water boarding. There is a very good chance that all of that group was legally prevented from discussing, "with anyone", what they saw and what they were told.

    While I am looking for intelligent responses, I look forward to being entertained by your twisted, right wing on this very possible scenario.
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    Re: Pelosi briefed on waterboarding in '02 [UPDATED]

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    Did any of you neo-cons ever think about this? What if Pelosi, and that small group, were indeed given a walk thru and maybe even given those specifics that you hope she was given re: water boarding. There is a very good chance that all of that group was legally prevented from discussing, "with anyone", what they saw and what they were told.

    While I am looking for intelligent responses, I look forward to being entertained by your twisted, right wing on this very possible scenario.
    If what you say is true than why is she talking about it now and why has she denied that she knew about it. If she truley felt it was wrong she could have done something its not like it would be the first leak of confidential info from a politician.

    The only thing more sad than the way democrats condunct themselves is that the republicans are not any better and as long as we keep argue about which party is better the longer both parties will be able to get away with being lying greedy scum that only look out for themselves and not what is good for the country.

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    Re: Pelosi briefed on waterboarding in '02 [UPDATED]

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    Did any of you neo-cons ever think about this? What if Pelosi, and that small group, were indeed given a walk thru and maybe even given those specifics that you hope she was given re: water boarding. There is a very good chance that all of that group was legally prevented from discussing, "with anyone", what they saw and what they were told.
    The prohibition of discussion would apply only with those not already privy to the information.

    Nothing in the briefing or the sanction would preclude those members of both Houses of Congress so briefed from submitting to the DCI or even the President a confidential and classified memorandum outlining principled opposition to the policy. Had such a memorandum been made part of the official record back then, then it would be clear now that, by silence, Democrats in Congress did not give their consent to such practices and policies.

    Nothing in the briefing or the sanction precludes those members of Congress bringing to the floor of the Congress a bill mandating the declassification and divulging of the material contained in the briefing, for an open and proper debate on the material and its ramifications. Had such a bill been brought, Congress would have had the opportunity to stop any acts it deemed abusive, and to institute proper sanctions for such abuses.

    Additionally, Congress is briefed because, by statute and Constitutional authority it is empowered with oversight into such realms. If the policy is wrong, if the policy violates US law, the Congress' charge at such times is to call the President to account. If Congress disclaims the ability to fulfill that function, they not only disclaim the right and need for such briefings, but they, by their declamation, abandons their explicit duties under Article I Section 8 of the Constitution:
    • To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;
    • To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
    • To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
    • To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;


    By these powers Congress and not the President is charged with establishing the rules even for CIA interrogators.

    Article II Section 3 of the Constitution charges the President with giving to the Congress information on the state of the Union, and empowers the President to recommend to the Congress such measures "as he shall judge necessary and expedient."

    Thus the briefings are mandated, not by will of Congress or even by the will of the President, but by the Constitution. And, by the Constitution, the final say on whether certain rules should stand or fall is given to the Congress and NOT the President.

    Thus when Congress chooses silence when presented with the policies, protocols, and procedures authorized for use in CIA interrogations, when Congress chooses silence when told that the CIA IS waterboarding, as Congress has the final say on whether such policies, protocols, and procedures should stand, their silence can be none other than tacit approval.

    Secrecy does not absolve Congress of their duty, nor can it absolve Pelosi of her complicity. If waterboarding is wrong, she had a duty to speak and she did not. She, and the rest of Congress including her fellow Democrats, had the power to stop such action immediately, and chose to look the other way. To now argue that such actions are abhorrent and unconscionable is a disgusting hypocrisy even for Democrats.

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    Re: Pelosi briefed on waterboarding in '02 [UPDATED]

    You really believe Bush ran the white house as it was supposed to be run, don't you? Hopefully, we'll find out more soon.

    Maybe Cheney will "leak" his big secrets. Nothing got in his way when he wanted to attack Joe Wilson and his CIA spy wife, in a very treasonist manner. I wonder what can be stopping him now. Hmmm............
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    Re: Pelosi briefed on waterboarding in '02 [UPDATED]

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    You really believe Bush ran the white house as it was supposed to be run, don't you? Hopefully, we'll find out more soon.
    What I know is that Congress abdicated its Constitutional duties, either out of deference to the Commander-In-Chief or out of simple cowardice.

    If Bush was running the White House inappropriately, the duty fell upon the Congress to apply appropriate correction.

    That no such correction was applied means that Congress gave tacit approval (whether appropriate to give or no) to Bush's command decisions in the Oval Office. For Congress to now revisit those decisions and impute criminality to them is a level of hypocrisy rare even for Democrats.

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    Re: Pelosi briefed on waterboarding in '02 [UPDATED]

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    What I know is that Congress abdicated its Constitutional duties, either out of deference to the Commander-In-Chief or out of simple cowardice.

    If Bush was running the White House inappropriately, the duty fell upon the Congress to apply appropriate correction.

    That no such correction was applied means that Congress gave tacit approval (whether appropriate to give or no) to Bush's command decisions in the Oval Office. For Congress to now revisit those decisions and impute criminality to them is a level of hypocrisy rare even for Democrats.
    Try as I might, I have to say I totally agree with all but, that last partisan shot. And I'll give you that one.

    Congress gave Bush a blank check with Iraq and it was downhill from there.

    I have reason to believe Obama is going to lance that Bush boil and restore honor to our country and reputation. I know you don't believe that but, maybe you can give him a little rope. If he uses that rope to hang himself... so be it.
    Thank You Barack Obama for Restoring Honor To The Presidency.
    President Obama will rank as one of our greatest presidents!

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    Re: Pelosi briefed on waterboarding in '02 [UPDATED]

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    Try as I might, I have to say I totally agree with all but, that last partisan shot. And I'll give you that one.

    Congress gave Bush a blank check with Iraq and it was downhill from there.

    I have reason to believe Obama is going to lance that Bush boil and restore honor to our country and reputation. I know you don't believe that but, maybe you can give him a little rope. If he uses that rope to hang himself... so be it.
    What you fail to grasp is that Congress, by its tacit approval, established complete legality for all that liberals would now criminalize.

    These issues are not crimes, for the very simple and unalterable reason that Congress failed to declare them as such when they had clear opportunity to do so. To criminalize now would be to create law ex post facto, which the Congress is categorically not permitted to do.

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    Re: Pelosi briefed on waterboarding in '02 [UPDATED]

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    What you fail to grasp is that Congress, by its tacit approval, established complete legality for all that liberals would now criminalize.

    These issues are not crimes, for the very simple and unalterable reason that Congress failed to declare them as such when they had clear opportunity to do so. To criminalize now would be to create law ex post facto, which the Congress is categorically not permitted to do.
    Not sure what you're referring to as "these issues". If it's the torture thing, it most certainly is a crime. That is what is causing all the outrage and that is what will be the reasons for the investigations that will be conducted.

    I don't believe they gave tacit approval because I don't think Bush kept them in the loop as much as people think. He kept much from Congress all during his term. He and Cheney had nothing but contempt for having to even communicate with Congress.

    And if they did know everything going on, and it was illegal, by them doing nothing would not make those crimes not crimes. (A crime is a crime until it is legislated to not be a crime.) It would be cause to vote the whole of them to the curb, tho!

    Good nite.
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    President Obama will rank as one of our greatest presidents!

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    Re: Pelosi briefed on waterboarding in '02 [UPDATED]

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    Did any of you neo-cons ever think about this? What if Pelosi, and that small group, were indeed given a walk thru and maybe even given those specifics that you hope she was given re: water boarding. There is a very good chance that all of that group was legally prevented from discussing, "with anyone", what they saw and what they were told.

    While I am looking for intelligent responses, I look forward to being entertained by your twisted, right wing on this very possible scenario.
    Nothing would have stopped her or any of them from issuing a brief against it.
    If she was "against", she could have recorded her opposition as Sen. Rockerfeller had in another instance; it was a CYA move on his part, but here is the problem for Pelosi had she done it...

    ...Having done that, issued a brief in opposition at that sensitive time, and not knowing the future, she would have stood against our efforts to extract information to protect America against another attack, and by issuing said brief... On the Record... had another attack occurred... she would have been political toast had THAT BRIEF come public.

    All it would have taken was a brief, on the record.
    She didn't issue one because she has no balls.

    Now she's ****ed herself with her load mouth, and semantically sliced statements... and no brief stating her opposition.
    Good.
    I hope there are investigations and she is first to be grilled.

    I said long ago... bring it on... their political witch hunt... because it is something sure to piss a whole lot of people off.

    .
    Last edited by zimmer; 04-25-09 at 01:00 PM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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    Why so serious?

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    Re: Pelosi briefed on waterboarding in '02 [UPDATED]

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    Did any of you neo-cons ever think about this? What if Pelosi, and that small group, were indeed given a walk thru and maybe even given those specifics that you hope she was given re: water boarding. There is a very good chance that all of that group was legally prevented from discussing, "with anyone", what they saw and what they were told.

    While I am looking for intelligent responses, I look forward to being entertained by your twisted, right wing on this very possible scenario.
    How can a Congressperson be legally kept from revealing something that they believe is illegal? That makes no sense.

    What does make sense is that Pelosi was briefed on what was going on, knew what it meant, and said nothing because she was okay with it. Now it's become politically expedient for her to claim otherwise.
    "I believe in a Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."

    --Albert Einstein, 1929

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