Page 6 of 10 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 93

Thread: 50% tax rate for high earners

  1. #51
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Last Seen
    12-26-10 @ 06:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    8,083

    Re: 50% tax rate for high earners

    Some of the richest people in society are corporate execs, and what do they do that's so important that warrants them having tens of millions of dollars to their name? Doctors, teachers, engineers, the people who do the real work and build societies, make much less than people who own the banks, and who own the factories.

    I don't feel the need to shed a tear when the people getting a free ride on the labour of others are suddenly taxed higher for their overinflated earnings. There is no threat to the economy by doing so. So execs. will make $500 000 per year instead of $1 million. Oh no, how awful!

  2. #52
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: 50% tax rate for high earners

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Hey I actually agree with you, however I am also a realist.

    Like it or not, we need government, else we would have anarchy. Like it or not we need government else we would never have dug ourselves out of the dark ages. Like it or not, we need government to keep order in the streets and people safe. Like it or not, we need government to be the binding force of society, so we have this thing called "a country". Like it or not we need that government to provide an umbrella of services that we have agreed to provide via the government. Like it or not we need government.
    We are most in agreement on these things then but I think when it comes to the details, is where we diverge.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    I would love to have no government, but then I also know that the rich and powerful would do anything and everything in their power keep the masses down.. they did it for 2000+ years so why should they not try again if it was not for government? At least with government we have in a democracy, a say in how things are run... in principle.
    The most influential do the same thing now.

    They control and guide our government regardless of whether what we think we control.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    All this costs money and to get that money, we have chosen a system of taxation. That is life, and like it or not you DO get up in the morning to earn a living well knowing that a part of that effort will go to the tax man to fund the society that you are living in. It goes to the police, army, roads, welfare and so on.
    This is were we disagree.

    I think a lot of these programs are waste. Anything more than a 5% tax on income is ridiculous to me.


    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    I also agree fully, that high taxes on the rich punishes that drive " to do more", and frankly I hate it. However saying that, I understand the principle and the practice of doing so, and as long as that top tax rate is not insane like it was decades ago in some countries including the US (60+%, even 90+% in some places), then I can live with the fact that on the last Euros that I make, that I will pay a higher tax rate on them. This is because I know, that my sacrifice will provide in part, services for my fellow citizens and my self. It also means that the "weaker" in society who do not earn what I earn, can get a bit of help by a lower tax bill and maybe just maybe, be able to work their way up the never ending ladder of prosperity. It is also a very well known fact, the more you earn, the better you can pay someone to exploit the tax code, so in fact in the end you pay relatively less than someone earning far less than you.
    That is an old wives tales in my opinion.

    If they could just hire someone to manipulate the tax code to pay less the rich wouldn't be paying for most of government.

    A 50% tax rate at any income level is absurd, that means that you are working half of your time exclusively for government.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Like it or not, our societies come with a cost for everyone.. that cost is taxes. Without taxes, our societies would be a miss match of tribal areas run by warlords, waring on each other over resources and women and probably STILL paying some sort of tax to the "ruler".
    The poor don't pay for the services they use, everyone else does.

    It creates an almost permanent under class because there is no reason to achieve if you don't have to do anything to get your income.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  3. #53
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: 50% tax rate for high earners

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Some of the richest people in society are corporate execs, and what do they do that's so important that warrants them having tens of millions of dollars to their name? Doctors, teachers, engineers, the people who do the real work and build societies, make much less than people who own the banks, and who own the factories.
    I own the factory I work at. My ownership is represented with shares of stock but I own a portion non the less.

    The same goes with banks unless its a credit union, in that scenario the account holders are the owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    I don't feel the need to shed a tear when the people getting a free ride on the labour of others are suddenly taxed higher for their overinflated earnings. There is no threat to the economy by doing so. So execs. will make $500 000 per year instead of $1 million. Oh no, how awful!
    They had to do something to get to that point in life.

    They didn't just wake up and say I'll make a few calls and become a corporate CEO today.

    When you manage a business of that size there is a lot of responsibility and pressure.

    Just look at the former CEO of Freddie Mac, he killed himself and he was a freaking millionaire.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  4. #54
    I'm not-low all the time
    Kushinator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Loop
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    16,254

    Re: 50% tax rate for high earners

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Some of the richest people in society are corporate execs, and what do they do that's so important that warrants them having tens of millions of dollars to their name? Doctors, teachers, engineers, the people who do the real work and build societies, make much less than people who own the banks, and who own the factories.
    These executives are not paid ultra high salaries because they bring very little of value to the table. For the most part, paying a CEO such a high salary is due to the nature of the job, CEO's are paid to increase capital value in their respective firms. Here is an example: If during the 3 years of CEO John Doe's tenure, the stock price not only goes up 25% ($10 billion) but debt is reduced by another 25% (saving $1 billion in liabilities annually), is the CEO worth $100,000,000 per year?

    If your answer is no, then i cannot take your opinion seriously.

    I don't feel the need to shed a tear when the people getting a free ride on the labour of others are suddenly taxed higher for their overinflated earnings. There is no threat to the economy by doing so. So execs. will make $500 000 per year instead of $1 million. Oh no, how awful!
    How are you so sure there is no threat to the economy? Do you actually believe taxing higher incomes will create a "talent drain" as highly capable bankers and entrepreneurs flee to other areas where taxes are considerably lower?

    On top of that, rich people are more likely to purchase highly durable goods, of which, the greatest amount of employment is compensated.

    Less money for British executives equals less Rolls Royce's being built, and sold. Less workers making Rolls's and less Rolls Royce salespeople equate to smaller amounts of expenditure, be it food, entertainment, housing (yes people losing jobs also have a tendency to default on their mortgages).

    Class envy is not a very strong premise.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  5. #55
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Ventura California
    Last Seen
    11-15-11 @ 11:17 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    8,706

    Re: 50% tax rate for high earners

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    At-a-glance: Budget 2009

    CIGARETTES, ALCOHOL AND FUEL
    • Alcohol taxes to go up 2% from midnight - putting the price of the average pint up 1p

    • Tax on tobacco to go up by 2% from 6pm - equivalent to an extra 7p on a pack of 20 cigarettes

    • Fuel duty to rise by 2p per litre from September, then by 1p a litre above indexation each April for the next four years

    My cigarettes are being taxed some more ... AGAIN
    Why would you be crying? You should be happy and proud that you can pay for someone elses unemployment and health care. I always though this is what you Liberals wanted and supported?

  6. #56
    Sage
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    08-27-09 @ 08:41 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    6,344

    Re: 50% tax rate for high earners

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    I fully understand what liberty is. But liberty comes with a cost and a responsibility and that is something you dont seem to understand.
    Sir, you have not a clue what liberty is, nor what responsibility is.

    If you had a hint of clue, you would know that liberty is giving the individual the widest possible latitude in his choices, while not shielding him from the full consequences of his failures, nor denying to him the full benefits of his successes.

    If you had a notion of responsibility, you would know that responsibility and accountability come when the individual bears the full brunt of all that proceeds from his choices--that if he is reckless with his money he will have no means to support himself and his household, that if he is reckless with his health his ending will be most unpleasant, that if he is reckless with his safety he will be injured and forced to labor on thus handicapped. You would know the capriciousness of mandating that others gift the reckless man funds to support himself, medicines for his ill health, accommodations for his self-inflicted handicaps, and you would know such capriciousness is neither fair nor wise. You would know that burdening all men with the duty of caring for all men spares each man the consequence of his own folly, while making him answerable for the folly of others; you would know that such burdens are the antithesis of justice.

    No, sir, collectivist thinking is bereft of all notion of liberty or responsibility, and collectivist thinkers reject all notion of liberty and responsibility.

  7. #57
    Sage
    Laila's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Last Seen
    04-28-17 @ 01:48 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    10,095

    Re: 50% tax rate for high earners

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Why would you be crying? You should be happy and proud that you can pay for someone elses unemployment and health care. I always though this is what you Liberals wanted and supported?
    I was upset but then i just paid for a 20 pack and didn't even notice a difference so hey, i got over it pretty quickly.


  8. #58
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Ventura California
    Last Seen
    11-15-11 @ 11:17 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    8,706

    Re: 50% tax rate for high earners

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Sir, you have not a clue what liberty is, nor what responsibility is.

    If you had a hint of clue, you would know that liberty is giving the individual the widest possible latitude in his choices, while not shielding him from the full consequences of his failures, nor denying to him the full benefits of his successes.

    If you had a notion of responsibility, you would know that responsibility and accountability come when the individual bears the full brunt of all that proceeds from his choices--that if he is reckless with his money he will have no means to support himself and his household, that if he is reckless with his health his ending will be most unpleasant, that if he is reckless with his safety he will be injured and forced to labor on thus handicapped. You would know the capriciousness of mandating that others gift the reckless man funds to support himself, medicines for his ill health, accommodations for his self-inflicted handicaps, and you would know such capriciousness is neither fair nor wise. You would know that burdening all men with the duty of caring for all men spares each man the consequence of his own folly, while making him answerable for the folly of others; you would know that such burdens are the antithesis of justice.

    No, sir, collectivist thinking is bereft of all notion of liberty or responsibility, and collectivist thinkers reject all notion of liberty and responsibility.
    Bravo sir....outstanding!

  9. #59
    Sage
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    08-27-09 @ 08:41 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    6,344

    Re: 50% tax rate for high earners

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Hey I actually agree with you, however I am also a realist.
    Defense of welfare is not realism, but justification of indulgence.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    All this costs money and to get that money, we have chosen a system of taxation. That is life, and like it or not you DO get up in the morning to earn a living well knowing that a part of that effort will go to the tax man to fund the society that you are living in. It goes to the police, army, roads, welfare and so on.
    Neat rhetoric, but completely skips over the part where the propriety of what society funds is justified. Army and roads I can support. Police, being a decided evil and at best marginally necessary, enjoys from me a very limited and most penurious support. Government welfare in all its forms is a predation on my purse and needs to be ended. Not curtailed, not restricted, not restrained, but obliterated in its entirety--such evil needs to be excised from our society permanently.

    You may, of course, disagree with my perspective--such is the right of every free man, even those who despise their freedom--but unless your position is to despise my freedom alongside your own, your argument fails unless you can demonstrate that, despite my protestation on such expenditures, it is just and fair and proper that I be taxed on their behalf.

    Preaching the virtue and necessity of taxation is meaningless cant until you have made such a case.

  10. #60
    Sage

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Goldsboro,PA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    5,595
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: 50% tax rate for high earners

    These tax rates are awfully high.
    Has anyone in government done the first thing in cutting spending ?
    The politicians are, IMO, fools..economic fools...both Liberals and Conservatives.....
    Government has grown to be too large, too wasteful...much like General Motors...
    They should also learn to say "no"...to the people who want this, want that....
    In our country, people worry so much about "environmental inpact"....not one word about the economic impact....

Page 6 of 10 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •