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Thread: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

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    Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    WASHINGTON – President Obama’s national intelligence director told colleagues in a private memo last week that the harsh interrogation techniques banned by the White House did produce significant information that helped the nation in its struggle with terrorists.

    “High value information came from interrogations in which those methods were used and provided a deeper understanding of the al Qa’ida organization that was attacking this country,” Adm. Dennis C. Blair, the intelligence director, wrote in a memo to his staff last Thursday.

    Admiral Blair sent his memo on the same day the administration publicly released secret Bush administration legal memos authorizing the use of interrogation methods that the Obama White House has deemed to be illegal torture. Among other things, the Bush administration memos revealed that two captured Qaeda operatives were subjected to a form of near-drowning known as waterboarding a total of 266 times.
    Admiral Blair’s assessment that the interrogation methods did produce important information was deleted from a condensed version of his memo released to the media last Thursday. Also deleted was a line in which he empathized with his predecessors who originally approved some of the harsh tactics after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.
    ...
    Several news accounts, including one in the New York Times last week, have quoted former intelligence officials saying the harsh interrogation of Abu Zubaydah, a Qaeda operative who was waterboarded 83 times, did not produce information that foiled terror plots. The Bush administration has long argued that harsh questioning of Qaeda operatives like Zubaydah helped prevent a planned attack on Los Angeles and cited passages in the memos released last week to bolster that conclusion.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/22/us...lair.html?_r=1


    .
    Politically Obama screwed the pooch on this.
    Thinking to cash in with the lunatic fringe he made a fringe issue into a central issue and now people want to know the WHOLE story...and that doesn't fit the charade he wished to capitalize on.

    I suspect he and much of the media will suddenly have amnesia on this issue and try as quickly as possible to change focus to something else.


    I think its important to note..
    They edited out anything contradicting their story in a memo released by a frigging ADMIRAL.
    Much of the media made up a story to go along with the Obama administrations selective use of information made public.

    (interesting that the New York Times mentions the New York Times "reporting" such..)
    Last edited by Triad; 04-21-09 at 10:32 PM.

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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    High value is a matter of opinion. Torture has specific uses, it is sometimes good for getting info on specific plans and only if you have other info to back it up and enough knowledgbe to trawl through the usual large amount of dubious info thrown in.

    But whether it gives decent info is something very different to whether it should be used, whether it is worth the dishonour and the precedent.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    from the same article:

    "The information gained from these techniques was valuable in some instances, but there is no way of knowing whether the same information could have been obtained through other means,” Admiral Blair said in a written statement issued last night. “The bottom line is these techniques have hurt our image around the world, the damage they have done to our interests far outweighed whatever benefit they gave us and they are not essential to our national security."

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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Triad View Post
    ...
    I think its important to note..
    I think the American people "note" and understand that we should never mortgage our values and principles as a nation and ever engage in use of torture methods. The ends do not justify the means. Period
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    I think the American people "note" and understand that we should never mortgage our values and principles as a nation and ever engage in use of torture methods. The ends do not justify the means. Period
    It's better to let people die then offend the weak by using "torture".
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    It's better to let people die then offend the weak by using "torture".
    Sometimes it is better to allow some to die than engage in complete dishonour and abandon all principles and civility. Anything else is the greed of Jacobins, scheming calculators who have no time for virtue and think only in terms of the most base of factors.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Sometimes it is better to allow some to die than engage in complete dishonour and abandon all principles and civility. Anything else is the greed of Jacobins, scheming calculators who have no time for virtue and think only in terms of the most base of factors.
    I feel so much safer knowing people like you are in the WH right now. I mean, who cares if I and my family happen to die... I can die knowing my country didn't water board some guy who COULD have saved my life.


    Seriously, Al-Quada needs to stopmucking around and nuke New York City so the world can see what's really at stake. Beter yet, Nuke New York and we find out that the USA had a man in custordy that KNEW of the attack and could have stopped it, but we were too "nice" and didn't do anything.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Seriously, Al-Quada needs to stopmucking around and nuke New York City so the world can see what's really at stake. Beter yet, Nuke New York and we find out that the USA had a man in custordy that KNEW of the attack and could have stopped it, but we were too "nice" and didn't do anything.
    Wow, rooting for the enemy to nuke NYC. Sickening.

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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    I personally don't understand - nor will I ever understand - an American citizen endorsing torture on another human being for purposes of information, security, or both. Far too many people rally behind the belief that we are engaging in torture to protect our country, but what about the basic human values we believe in? If torture and cruelty become policy, then so much for our belief in individual rights. The Constitution recognizes that man has an inherent right, not bestowed by the state or laws, to liberty of person and personal dignity - including the right to be free of cruelty. The spirit and ideals in the Constitution applies to all human beings, not just those in America. It even applies to those designated as 'unlawful enemy combatants.' The Constitution embodies every ideal and value we believe in as a nation, and that better men than myself gave their lives to secure. I don't think we should throw all this away just to get information which could be gathered in a more humane way. Honestly...the fact that so many people embrace torture as potential policy is somewhat disturbing to me.

    I'm not sure if McCain ever flip-flopped on the torture issue, but he had a damn good quote on the subject.

    "Our enemies didn't adhere to the Geneva Convention. Many of my comrades were subjected to very cruel, very inhumane and degrading treatment, a few of them even unto death. But every one of us -- every single one of us -- knew and took great strength from the belief that we were different from our enemies, that we were better than them, that we, if the roles were reversed, would not disgrace ourselves by committing or countenancing such mistreatment of them." - John McCain
    Last edited by Singularity; 04-22-09 at 01:41 AM.

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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Wow, rooting for the enemy to nuke NYC. Sickening.
    That's what happens when people watch too much 24.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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