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Thread: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I would agree. But I think it would happen anyway.
    Probably. If we knew everything the CIA has done our heads would probably explode.

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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Probably. If we knew everything the CIA has done our heads would probably explode.
    If we knew everything the CIA has done, someone would come to our houses and make our heads explode.
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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    I feel so much safer knowing people like you are in the WH right now. I mean, who cares if I and my family happen to die... I can die knowing my country didn't water board some guy who COULD have saved my life.
    By such a measure, we should use everything and anything to possibly get any information to prevent any potential attack. That includes rounding up all people of Arabic and Persian descent. Bugging all places of Muslim worship (not to mention liberal universities). Suspending the Constitution and installing a 1984 Big Brother system to ensure our safety.

    I'd rather suffer a terrorist attack than watch our country go Fascist in a Nazi like style. I don't know about you.

    The problem with torture, as already stated, is that people undergoing torture say anything to stop the pain. And the more bad information we get, the less assets and time we have to allocate on the actual good bits of relevant information. The report stated that the vast majority of relevant, good intel came from simple interviews without any torture. If we had tortured all of them, we'd likely have droves of worthless information that would sap our resources.

    Essentially, to do what you want, we'd have to vastly expand our government.

    Care to rethink your position and change it to one that is ideologically consistent with previous statements you have made or acknowledge that your ideological system is inherently flawed and contradictory?
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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    By such a measure, we should use everything and anything to possibly get any information to prevent any potential attack. That includes rounding up all people of Arabic and Persian descent. Bugging all places of Muslim worship (not to mention liberal universities). Suspending the Constitution and installing a 1984 Big Brother system to ensure our safety.
    I see you like FDR.

    I'd rather suffer a terrorist attack than watch our country go Fascist in a Nazi like style. I don't know about you.
    Does this make FDR a Nazi?

    The problem with torture, as already stated, is that people undergoing torture say anything to stop the pain.
    That's why waterboarding worked.
    The Captain that fired a round next the head of an Iraqi terrorists saved his troops lives; considered torture... proving it works.

    To categorically say people will say anything is pure BS.
    Torture works.

    And the more bad information we get, the less assets and time we have to allocate on the actual good bits of relevant information.
    That is what professional analysts are for.
    You don't really believe this is done willy-nilly do you.

    If you have some information, and can leverage this to get more.

    The report stated that the vast majority of relevant, good intel came from simple interviews without any torture.
    There might be times a simple interview won't work, and not fast enough; some means of torture, like waterboarding, shouldn't be taken off the table.

    If we had tortured all of them, we'd likely have droves of worthless information that would sap our resources.
    It's not a torture all proposition, it is one tactic in a greater strategy.

    Essentially, to do what you want, we'd have to vastly expand our government.
    And now you oppose this?
    ROTFLMFAO
    You, Mr. Social Engineer finally found some government program you would be against expanding.
    Pretty funny, as this is the typical leftist world view; National Security and Defense is to be shrunk... while government social engineering schemes are to be expanded.
    Too ****ing funny.

    Care to rethink your position and change it to one that is ideologically consistent with previous statements you have made or acknowledge that your ideological system is inherently flawed and contradictory?
    Your position is tragically flawed because:

    1. you think torture doesn't work.
    2. you give a blanket assessment that using it all the time will produce crap; perhaps, but torture would be used in specific situations.
    3. you neglect to note that some information accompanied by torture can produce the intended result.

    Torture works. It breaks people... some folks it breaks even before anything is done... just the thought or belief it can be used.
    Eliminating it eliminates a tremendous psychological weapon.

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    Last edited by zimmer; 04-22-09 at 06:56 AM.
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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Triad View Post
    That is cute.... except for the fact that your perfectly willing to trod all over those "values and principles" in order to demonize political opponents.
    You are even seemingly willing to do that knowing you have only half the information.

    The American People deserve both sides of the story. Not simply the bits Obama wishes to use to pander to extreme leftist who don't even care if they only have half the story.

    There is no "1/2 Story"....torture is either right or its wrong. Its nothing more than a justification of your morals to say...well, its ok to use torture if it accomplishes this, but not if it accomplishes that.
    We as "America" are either better than that in our morals/ethics or we are similar to the very people we condemn.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Don't know about you, but killing/destroying/eradicating my enemies has always been a value of mine. Only thing a terrorist changes for me is target selection.
    "By any means possible" has never been the way America operates, THAT is the mentality of terrorists groups, perhaps you are suggesting that America become just another terrorist country?
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    There is no "1/2 Story"....torture is either right or its wrong. Its nothing more than a justification of your morals to say...well, its ok to use torture if it accomplishes this, but not if it accomplishes that.
    We as "America" are either better than that in our morals/ethics or we are similar to the very people we condemn.
    Torturing people IS wrong. Period. Should never be done.

    Extracting information from select individuals whom have, or or highly likely to have information to save lives through certain harsh measures such as water boarding is not wrong.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Wondering if I'm reading you right Mr. V. Torture to you isn't a specific action, but an act. Its a thin line but its there. Or put another way, its intent not the action that defines it for you?

    So for example...shoving bamboo shoots under peoples finger nails for the specific purpose to caue them pain and agony is torture. But shoving bamboo shoots under peoples finger nails because you have a reasonable belief that they have important information and you want them to give it to you is interrogation?

    That waterboarding someone for no other reason than to cause them to be scarred mentally or feel like they're dieing is torture. Waterboarding someone because you have a reasonable belief that they have useful information and you want them to give it to you is interrogation?

    Etc?

    Is that essentially what you're saying?

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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    To Disney, CC, and otheres. My question to you...

    What methods of interrogation should we do with prisoners we believe have information that is needed. What is the threshold you believe is the edge of the border that is "morally" okay for our country or that wouldn't harm them mentally"?

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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    It's better to let people die then offend the weak by using "torture".
    I am all for using any and every means available to stop US cities from being turned into smoking radioactive craters, and I do not want anyone that disagrees anywhere near a position of importance within the US government.

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