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Thread: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    I don't like it, because it is bad history. It's even sillier than the incessant and mostly inane allusions to the TV show "24" some here use as smokescreens to dodge answering direct questions about the lives they will trade for their honor and principles.


    You're not folling anyone? You realise that.

    Bottomline in these cases none of the situations where anything like the live or death, ticking timebomb scenarios that keep being brought up. When you imply they are and then don't like being called on it, you aren't actually folling anyone.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    BTW, there's no such thing as bad history, or good history.

    FDR did a smart thing. He showed Americans that we stick to our principles. American's wanted to stay out of WWII, and so we did, until we were provoked by an aggressor.

    Ironic enough...This example is actually quite close to what Wessex here is saying. At least that's what I think.
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    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post


    You're not folling anyone? You realise that.

    Bottomline in these cases none of the situations where anything like the live or death, ticking timebomb scenarios that keep being brought up. When you imply they are and then don't like being called on it, you aren't actually folling anyone.
    The only one who's protesting about being "called" on anything is you.....and badly at that.

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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Since when is allowing the same as necesary? It is far closer in meaning to risking than necessary. Anyway I've explained what I meant, if you want to disagree with what my posts mean when you have it from the author that is your business but it is a very way to go about debating.
    If that was your intent, I accept that it was your intent, and that you merely said it badly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    I would allow some risk to uphold my principles and honour and that of mynation certainly, that naturally means that a slim portion of that risk is on my own family and friends.
    How much risk?

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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    I would allow some risk to uphold my principles and honour and that of mynation certainly, that naturally means that a slim portion of that risk is on my own family and friends.
    I'm curious. Would you be in favor of using banned techniques once the risk exceeded a "slim portion"? Why or why not?

  6. #36
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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    The only one who's protesting about being "called" on anything is you.....and badly at that.
    Really, I'm the one who whinged about people talking about 24. Interesting I didn't know that.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    "Our enemies didn't adhere to the Geneva Convention. Many of my comrades were subjected to very cruel, very inhumane and degrading treatment, a few of them even unto death. But every one of us -- every single one of us -- knew and took great strength from the belief that we were different from our enemies, that we were better than them, that we, if the roles were reversed, would not disgrace ourselves by committing or countenancing such mistreatment of them." - John McCain
    And that would still hold true. When you look at how some countries have treated captured prisoners waterboarding is incredibly light in comparison.

    It does no bodily harm for heavens sake.

  8. #38
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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    How much risk?
    It deoends, if we are talking about a real 24 like situation with thousands endangered iminently and the suspect almost certainly having most of the ncesdsary info, then I probably could turn a blind eye to a few harsh techniques but other than that I could not support it. One must take utmost care that expedients are not turned into regularities.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    It deoends, if we are talking about a real 24 like situation with thousands endangered iminently and the suspect almost certainly having most of the ncesdsary info, then I probably could turn a blind eye to a few harsh techniques but other than that I could not support it. One must take utmost care that expedients are not turned into regularities.
    If waterboarding is a harsh technique for getting information what technique would be acceptable for them to try?

    Or at this point are we just supposed to ask nicely for information and just deal with it if they prefer not to tell us anything.

    Seriously. I want to know what - beyond just asking - is an acceptable means of interrogation for the CIA when it comes to captured prisoners.

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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post

    It does no bodily harm for heavens sake.
    So? It does severe, and that means very severe, mental distress. It is so distressing it did get these people to "break".
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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