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Thread: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

  1. #21
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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    More serious than you, apparently.
    Well if you can't laugh as they say......
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    No. Wessexman proposed that it was necessary to allow some to die for the sake of one's principles. I would like to know if he is prepared to apply that logic to his own kin.

    When Abraham made ready to sacrifice Isaac, God stayed his hand at the last. Terrorists are not so benign.
    doesn't that put it out of context then?

    I didn't see his statement as a personal principle. It was more of a statement of which is applied in a collective sense. You know, as in the entire country's principles.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    doesn't that put it out of context then?

    I didn't see his statement as a personal principle. It was more of a statement of which is applied in a collective sense. You know, as in the entire country's principles.
    All principles are personal. Countries do not have principles. Nations do not have principles. Only individuals can have principles.

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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    No. Wessexman proposed that it was necessary to allow some to die for the sake of one's principles. I would like to know if he is prepared to apply that logic to his own kin.
    .
    I didn't say it was "necessary". I simply said meant that to maintain honour and prciniples that some courses of action should be ruled out even if we think this may slightly increase the risk of terrorism, as is the case in hand.

    Your situation was silly. I would hardly be allowed to question detainees if my family was being directly threatened nor are any of these cases in the 24-like scenrios you keep positing or implying.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Triad View Post
    That is cute.... except for the fact that your perfectly willing to trod all over those "values and principles" in order to demonize political opponents.
    Did YOU actually say this?!!! This precisely what you do in pretty much each and every post you make. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    I didn't say it was "necessary". I simply said meant that to maintain honour and prciniples that some courses of action should be ruled out even if we think this may slightly increase the risk of terrorism, as is the case in hand.
    What you said:
    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Sometimes it is better to allow some to die than engage in complete dishonour and abandon all principles and civility. Anything else is the greed of Jacobins, scheming calculators who have no time for virtue and think only in terms of the most base of factors.
    Allowing some to die is not risking their death, but accepting their death. It is justifying their death.

    So, yes, you DID say it was "necessary".

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Your situation was silly. I would hardly be allowed to question detainees if my family was being directly threatened nor are any of these cases in the 24-like scenrios you keep positing or implying.
    Silly is not answering the simple question.

    I shall rephrase: if you will allow some to die for your honor and your principles, will you allow family members (wife, son, daughter) to die for those principles? Just answer "yes" or "no".

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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    All principles are personal. Countries do not have principles. Nations do not have principles. Only individuals can have principles.
    A country DOES have principles. Those principles usually manifest themselves thru public opinion. Whether the elected officials listen to the people, is another thing entirely though.

    Here's something you might like: Pearl Harbor. FDR knew about the attack before it happened, but he let it happen anyway (though he did prepare a little bit for it). He use this "tragedy" to change public opinion, which was in favor of the isolationists, and therefore manipulating a country's principles.

    You're trying to fit something that is meant to be a collective thought into an individual/personal thought.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    Here's something you might like: Pearl Harbor. FDR knew about the attack before it happened, but he let it happen anyway (though he did prepare a little bit for it). He use this "tragedy" to change public opinion, which was in favor of the isolationists, and therefore manipulating a country's principles.
    I don't like it, because it is bad history. It's even sillier than the incessant and mostly inane allusions to the TV show "24" some here use as smokescreens to dodge answering direct questions about the lives they will trade for their honor and principles.

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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    I don't like it, because it is bad history. It's even sillier than the incessant and mostly inane allusions to the TV show "24" some here use as smokescreens to dodge answering direct questions about the lives they will trade for their honor and principles.
    The question you posed reveals that you didn't really understand what his principles were in the first place. Perhaps you can try asking a better question?
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    What you said:


    Allowing some to die is not risking their death, but accepting their death. It is justifying their death.

    So, yes, you DID say it was "necessary".
    Since when is allowing the same as necesary? It is far closer in meaning to risking than necessary. Anyway I've explained what I meant, if you want to disagree with what my posts mean when you have it from the author that is your business but it is a very way to go about debating.

    Silly is not answering the simple question.

    I shall rephrase: if you will allow some to die for your honor and your principles, will you allow family members (wife, son, daughter) to die for those principles? Just answer "yes" or "no".
    I would allow some risk to uphold my principles and honour and that of mynation certainly, that naturally means that a slim portion of that risk is on my own family and friends.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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