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Thread: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

  1. #151
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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Not very careful with the details eh?

    Carrier funding applies to the US Navy, which is not covered by the 2-year restriction, and which Congress is explicitly authorized to maintain as a standing force.
    It would help your argument if the military was completely seperate from each other. As shown in Iraq, sailors have become part of the standing army.

    But here's a good example.

    Abrams M-1A2 SEP

    Multi-year contract funding for tanks. Can't do that. But we do. And no one complains how we violate COTUS.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Not quite.

    "involving, relating to, or applicable to every member of a class, kind, or group" and pair that with "aid in the form of money or necessities for those in need b: an agency or program through which such aid is distributed" and it simply reads that any member of any class, kind of group that is in need of aid. And this does seem to describe today's programs as everyone from the super poor to the formerly super rich getting bailouts meets the of all classes in need. That of course doesn't make it right, but it meets the definition.
    No.

    Change "any member of any class, kind of group that is in need of aid" to "every member of any class, kind of group that is in need of aid. " It must be applicable to all or it is not "general."

    Further, the aggregate entity to which Congress is empowered to provide for the "general welfare" is the people as a whole--not a subset of the people putatively under economic duress. Granting aid to members of any such subset is not "general welfare" but "specific welfare."

    No subsidy or transfer of wealth is Constitutional, for all such payments and transactions apply to specific individuals and are thus categorically NOT general welfare. Bailouts, government subsidies to farmers, welfare of any kind, are beyond the power of Congress to gift to anyone.

    Now, if you want to continue this discussion, I suggest starting a new thread on the topic, for I think we have ventured far enough from the original topic of this thread.

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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    It would help your argument if the military was completely seperate from each other. As shown in Iraq, sailors have become part of the standing army.

    But here's a good example.

    Abrams M-1A2 SEP

    Multi-year contract funding for tanks. Can't do that. But we do. And no one complains how we violate COTUS.
    From your link:

    The U.S. Army Tank-Automotive and Armaments Command awarded GDLS several contracts worth over US$800 million for M1A2SEP reset work, starting 2007 through 2009.
    Check my math, but 2007 through 2009 would be within the Constitutionally-required time frame.

  4. #154
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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Providing welfare checks to the poor violates COTUS, but only conservatives complain.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  5. #155
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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Providing welfare checks to the poor violates COTUS, but only conservatives complain.
    What does this have to do with the topic?
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

  6. #156
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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    No.

    Change "any member of any class, kind of group that is in need of aid" to "every member of any class, kind of group that is in need of aid. " It must be applicable to all or it is not "general."
    There is no difference. Any and every member in any class group or kind that is in need of welfare is the same thing. One cannot give welfare to someone who does not need it by definition. Then it's a mere gift.

    Further, the aggregate entity to which Congress is empowered to provide for the "general welfare" is the people as a whole--not a subset of the people putatively under economic duress. Granting aid to members of any such subset is not "general welfare" but "specific welfare."
    Again, as stated earlier, you are focusing on specific programs rather than aggregate general welfare. Having lots of programs that give to specific groups but having all groups' members that need help receive it fulfills the same outcome as one program that is indiscriminate. The COTUS really doesn't help here as it provides no guidance other than interpretations of "General" and "Welfare."

    No subsidy or transfer of wealth is Constitutional, for all such payments and transactions apply to specific individuals and are thus categorically NOT general welfare. Bailouts, government subsidies to farmers, welfare of any kind, are beyond the power of Congress to gift to anyone.
    See above. There's nothing say that individual specific programs that as a whole with each other provide aggregate general welfare do not meet the obligation. You are instead ignoring the term general in the broad sense and how lots of programs in aggregate meet such a goal instead to focus on how individual programs cannot be general.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    From your link:



    Check my math, but 2007 through 2009 would be within the Constitutionally-required time frame.
    Further on:

    . The program was initiated with a $46 million long-lead material award in July 2006 for the first 72 tanks. In November 2007 the Army awarded additional $89 for additional upgrades. The second award covered work on 240 tanks to be completed by 2009.
    And 2007 to 2009 is three years. 2007, 2008 and 2009.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Further on:



    And 2007 to 2009 is three years. 2007, 2008 and 2009.
    2007 to 2009 is 2 years.

    2007---->2008 Year 1
    2008---->2009 Year 2

    You don't count the first year when counting actual time passed.
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    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    2007 to 2009 is 2 years.

    2007---->2008 Year 1
    2008---->2009 Year 2

    You don't count the first year when counting actual time passed.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Sometimes it is better to allow some to die
    Then please god let it be you.

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