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Thread: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

  1. #101
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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Would you torture a person in order to save the lives of your family or countrymen? It's a terribly simply question.
    Bull****. It was another absurd, 24-like scenario and I have no intention of jumping through such hoops.

    What I would say is I would be willing to take the risk involved to my countrymen of not torturing suspects yes because I believe the honour and lack of precedent and state power is not worth it.

    However if it really were a 24-like situation and the attacks were to be very big, then I might be able to turn a blind eye. But that is far from the case in the vast majority of situations.

    I find it interesting you know say torture instead of just waterboarding. Are you willing to use even harsher methods to stop even a conventional terrorist attack?
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  2. #102
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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    By war, I am assuming you mean the defender, as the aggressor is obvious. No, for reasons that you and I would both agree on. Since we are chatting about philosophy, i'll quote one of my personal fave's, John Stuart Mill, as I believe he summed it up much nicer than I could.

    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse."



    That would be incorrect on two counts.

    1. When Congress speaks, it is the representatives of the people, not the people themselves, that have spoken. If we do not like what they say, we overthrow the current governmental regime every few years in the form of elections.

    2. The morality is not moot simply because the Congress, the White House, or even the majority of the citizenry endorse it. Morality is not a utilitarian issue, nor is it based upon the mere actions of a governmental body's decision.



    Not true. Take Abu Graib or Guantanamo, for instance. Or the Japanese internment camps during WWII. War was certainly "the selected option" by Congress and our President, but would you say that these issues were 100% morally correct? I wouldn't, because many of the activities that went on there are morally suspect. The only real debatable thing in these examples was the necessity of doing them - not the issue of morality here (for example, it was morally wrong to imprison the Japanese American citizenry in internment camps during WWII, but was it necessary?)



    That would be an incorrect assumption. Furthermore, i'd be interested to know where you came to such an off-base conclusion. Last I checked, we were discussing the morality of torturing enemy combatants, which I oppose because it is immoral. Can you show me where I said or even implied that I wanted to "hinder victory" and "want Bush to fail"?
    We're at war, the so called torture is to obtain intelligence, which is a standard part of any war.
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  3. #103
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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    We're at war, the so called torture is to obtain intelligence, which is a standard part of any war.
    Torture is illegal in this country.

    The laws of this country do not depend on the upside down test, do "the ends justify the means"?
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  4. #104
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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    Torture is illegal in this country.

    The laws of this country do not depend on the upside down test, do "the ends justify the means"?
    Welfare is unconstitutional, I don't see you railing against that. Of course not, because it's part of the liberal agenda. Please spare us the feigned outrage.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  5. #105
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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Welfare is unconstitutional, I don't see you railing against that. Of course not, because it's part of the liberal agenda. Please spare us the feigned outrage.
    Cut him some slack. If it weren't for the feigned outrage and banal blather he'd have nothing to say.

  6. #106
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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Fifty-eight percent (58%) believe the Obama administration’s recent release of CIA memos about the harsh interrogation methods used on terrorism suspects endangers the national security of the United States. The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that 28% believe the release of the memos helps America’s image abroad.
    Rasmussen Reports: The Most Comprehensive Public Opinion Data Anywhere


  7. #107
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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Welfare is unconstitutional, I don't see you railing against that. Of course not, because it's part of the liberal agenda. Please spare us the feigned outrage.
    Prove Welfare is unconstitutional.

    No outrage here. Just trying to educate you.
    Thank You Barack Obama for Restoring Honor To The Presidency.
    President Obama will rank as one of our greatest presidents!

  8. #108
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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    Prove Welfare is unconstitutional.

    No outrage here. Just trying to educate you.
    Easy.
    • It's not one of the enumerated powers of Congress, Article I Section 8.
    • Amendment 10 reserves all powers not given Congress to the people and to the states.


    As it is not in the Constitution, it is of necessity unconstitutional.

    Thus you are educated.

  9. #109
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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Easy.
    • It's not one of the enumerated powers of Congress, Article I Section 8.
    • Amendment 10 reserves all powers not given Congress to the people and to the states.


    As it is not in the Constitution, it is of necessity unconstitutional.

    Thus you are educated.
    Oi vey!
    There are many federal "laws" that are not "enumerated" in the constitution.

    You fail... once again.

    For your next trick are you going to show us how collecting federal income taxes from us is also unconstitutional?
    Thank You Barack Obama for Restoring Honor To The Presidency.
    President Obama will rank as one of our greatest presidents!

  10. #110
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    Re: Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    Oi vey!
    There are many federal "laws" that are not "enumerated" in the constitution.
    How does that negate his argument?

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