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Thread: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style Attac

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    CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style Attac

    (CNSNews.com) - The Central Intelligence Agency told CNSNews.com today that it stands by the assertion made in a May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo that the use of “enhanced techniques” of interrogation on al Qaeda leader Khalid Sheik Mohammed (KSM) -- including the use of waterboarding -- caused KSM to reveal information that allowed the U.S. government to thwart a planned attack on Los Angeles.

    Before he was waterboarded, when KSM was asked about planned attacks on the United States, he ominously told his CIA interrogators, “Soon, you will know.”

    According to the previously classified May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo that was released by President Barack Obama last week, the thwarted attack -- which KSM called the “Second Wave”-- planned “ ‘to use East Asian operatives to crash a hijacked airliner into’ a building in Los Angeles.”
    CNSNews.com - CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style Attack on Los Angeles

    I guess this settles the debate on whether or not waterboarding works. Saved lives, caught terrorist. Good thing really.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Actually, this proves it CAN work. It doesn't prove it "does" work, as does suggests it works across the board all the time.

    I think MOST reasonable people can accept that intense interrogation, mild torture, or even extreme torture can all yield legitimate results. As I've stated repeatedly, we would not put our own men in the military through things such as waterboarding and other things in preparation for being able to withstand it if captured if there wasn't a chance that they could give out legitimate information.

    However, the question comes as follows:

    1. Does it yield enough legitimate information on a consistant enough basis that it is worth it.

    2. Does the damage to our integrety as a nation and world standing outweight the potential gains of using such techniques in light of #1.

    3. Are there more effective ways to retrieve said information that is less questionable and has less effect in regards to #2.

    4. Does the potential for over reliance on a tactic whose information may yeild a high amount of false positives outweight the benefit of the legitimate information we can recieve.

    5. Does the use of such techniques raise the likihood that our soldiers in future wars against groups that previously did not routinely use such techniques or worse will be subject to such techniques due to the expectation that the U.S. will be doing it to theirs?

    These are some of the questions I think one must begin to ask themselves once they accept the fact that it IS possible to get legitimate worth while information from not just these kind of techniques but even full out universally held acts of "torture" but also accept the fact that such a process is far from a perfect form of gaining information that does have at least POTENTIAL pitfalls.
    4.
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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    CNSNews? Are you serious?

    You cite a reknowned propoganda source and claim it proves your point.

    Now THAT is funny.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    CNSNews? Are you serious?

    You cite a reknowned propoganda source and claim it proves your point.

    Now THAT is funny.
    Having you come on and bash the source instead of the info now thats... expected. Are you related to HDL?

    IT was the first source I found backing what cheney was saying... if it turns out bogus, by all means bring out the "truth", otherwise, all you have is... your usual shtick.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Actually, this proves it CAN work. It doesn't prove it "does" work, as does suggests it works across the board all the time.

    I think MOST reasonable people can accept that intense interrogation, mild torture, or even extreme torture can all yield legitimate results. As I've stated repeatedly, we would not put our own men in the military through things such as waterboarding and other things in preparation for being able to withstand it if captured if there wasn't a chance that they could give out legitimate information.
    According to the article, the restrictions on such use were very well defined.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    However, the question comes as follows:

    1. Does it yield enough legitimate information on a consistant enough basis that it is worth it.
    Counter, what happens when we do not use such and learn later a preventable attack was carried out... do the families of the dead get to sue because we didn't do everything we could to prevent it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    2. Does the damage to our integrety as a nation and world standing outweight the potential gains of using such techniques in light of #1.
    And what countries are we expecting to cheer us on for not doing such? France.. the same country that did, and does business with Iran?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    3. Are there more effective ways to retrieve said information that is less questionable and has less effect in regards to #2.
    If you know of any send them to the WH.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    4. Does the potential for over reliance on a tactic whose information may yeild a high amount of false positives outweight the benefit of the legitimate information we can recieve.
    I'd break the knee caps of any terrorist that had possible information to save lives and sleep well at night. I'd have nightmares if I learned I didn't act and people died.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    5. Does the use of such techniques raise the likihood that our soldiers in future wars against groups that previously did not routinely use such techniques or worse will be subject to such techniques due to the expectation that the U.S. will be doing it to theirs?
    This is a false argument. We treated Vietnamese POW's well, our boys were tortured.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    These are some of the questions I think one must begin to ask themselves once they accept the fact that it IS possible to get legitimate worth while information from not just these kind of techniques but even full out universally held acts of "torture" but also accept the fact that such a process is far from a perfect form of gaining information that does have at least POTENTIAL pitfalls.
    4.
    The real question to ask is, could you sleep at night knowing that terrorist in custody knew about that bomb and we didn't get the information in time.

    I couldn't.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    1. Does it yield enough legitimate information on a consistant enough basis that it is worth it.
    Why is consistency a valid consideration? If we avert one major terrorist attack because of these methods - thus saving thousands or even millions of lives - then consistency is not important.

    2. Does the damage to our integrety as a nation and world standing outweight the potential gains of using such techniques in light of #1.
    If it averts one major terrorist attack then it's worth all the pissed off foreigners in the world. I'm not concerned with how others perceive us.

    3. Are there more effective ways to retrieve said information...
    This is a valid question, but only in isolation. Your qualifier...

    that is less questionable and has less effect in regards to #2.
    ...is immaterial to the legitimacy of anything we do.

    4. Does the potential for over reliance on a tactic whose information may yeild a high amount of false positives outweight the benefit of the legitimate information we can recieve.
    Not if we avert even one major terrorist attack.

    5. Does the use of such techniques raise the likihood that our soldiers in future wars against groups that previously did not routinely use such techniques or worse will be subject to such techniques due to the expectation that the U.S. will be doing it to theirs?
    Even if it did raise the likelihood of such techniques being used on our troops, it wouldn't matter.

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Ethereal, would you support the systematic:

    1. Deportation
    2. Imprisonment
    3. Murder

    Of any muslim in the U.S. if it prevented just one terrorist attack?
    Forget "LWOP", until this shutdown ends I get to enjoy "WWOP": Work Without Pay

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    However, the question comes as follows:

    1. Does it yield enough legitimate information on a consistant enough basis that it is worth it.

    2. Does the damage to our integrety as a nation and world standing outweight the potential gains of using such techniques in light of #1.

    3. Are there more effective ways to retrieve said information that is less questionable and has less effect in regards to #2.

    4. Does the potential for over reliance on a tactic whose information may yeild a high amount of false positives outweight the benefit of the legitimate information we can recieve.

    5. Does the use of such techniques raise the likihood that our soldiers in future wars against groups that previously did not routinely use such techniques or worse will be subject to such techniques due to the expectation that the U.S. will be doing it to theirs?

    These are some of the questions I think one must begin to ask themselves once they accept the fact that it IS possible to get legitimate worth while information from not just these kind of techniques but even full out universally held acts of "torture" but also accept the fact that such a process is far from a perfect form of gaining information that does have at least POTENTIAL pitfalls.
    4.
    And the alternative is? Do nothing?

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Ethereal, would you support the systematic:

    1. Deportation
    2. Imprisonment
    3. Murder

    Of any muslim in the U.S. if it prevented just one terrorist attack?
    Why is murder an option?

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Why is murder an option?
    Why is torture an option?
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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