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Thread: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style Attac

  1. #81
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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Did anybody bring up that we waterboard many of our own soldiers as part of training them to deal with interrogation?

    Buddies of mine have told me of being waterboarded in advanced training in the service. They said it was virtually impossible not to comply with whatever was being asked of them, but that it did them no lasting harm.

    If we do it to our own soldiers to toughen them up and prepare them for the worst, I have no problem with doing it to known terrorists if we reasonably believe doing so may prevent an attack.

    There's apparently a world of difference between waterboarding, and traditional "torture" such as splinting the fingernails, cutting off body parts, etc.

    G.



    I bring this up all the time, I was waterboarded in SERE school, and I am mentally ok.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  2. #82
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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Wait, so your comments aren't about within our border but simply attacks on American's abroad?

    Since 9/11 we've had routinely attacks by terrorists upon our military and military installations and our embassy. Or do attacks on embassies, facilities, and troops only count for when it happens to Clinton.

    Or are you going to bring up Kohbar towers which wasn't American land, but was reportedly partially targeting Americans. Because if you wish to bring that up I'd point to the 2005 Amman Bombings.

    Sorry, by WHATEVER standard you want to push it, its not a good way of measuring things. From 1993 to September 10th, 2001 we had no attacks within our border. We did have attack on U.S. Lands (embassies), but we've had that in the past 8 years. We did have attacks on U.S. military vehicles, but we've had that in the past 8 years. We did have attacks on troop facilities, we've had that in the past 8 years. We did have attacks on non-US facilities that killed Americans, but we've had that too.

    You're massively mistaken if you think I prefer the Clinton method completely. Especially when I stated that nothing that I was stating meant Clinton's policies were any better than Bush's.

    But that's typical of you Mr. V. Someone dares disagree with you so naturally they must be a terrorist loving torture hating lefty fool regardless of any actual FACTS outside of disagreeing with you. If the option was "Bush's way" or "Clinton's way" and that was my only options I'd choose Bush's without a second hesitation. That said, NEITHER way is perfect or even near perfect and Bush's still needs a GREAT deal of fine tuning and has a GREAT deal of things I have issues with. I also have been on record numerous times in this forum to saying that many of the Bush administration actions HAVE gone about making us safer, however using the false, ignorant, ****ty attempt at logic by saying "we were attacked on 9/11 so clinton's policies are bad, we haven't been attacked since 9/11 so Bush's policies are good" is up there just below "God Told me so" in regards to the worst ways of attempting to prove that point.


    WTF is with people? Are you all intentionally being dense?


    I'm talking TERRORIST ATTACKS on American interests. Why is that comment so hard to wrap your head around?

    And this isn't about Bush or Clinton... it's about methods used and which worked! Clinton ran with one mindset, and the world seemed to approve of it. It however was flawed in that terrorist seemed to keep blowing **** up. The Kobar towers, the WTC, the USS Cole... 9/11 comes along and our leaders decide "okay, now we're serious". And guess what?

    Attacks on American soil 0.

    Attacks on American interest? Almost nil. Yes, you could say daily if you pull up Iraq, and I can grant that on a technicality, but it is a war/combat situation... so that cancels it all out.


    Many attacks were averted because of the more intense information gathering, from electronic to waterboarding three scum bags. Lives were saved, terrorist captured, all in all it proved effective.


    What's so hard to get about that?
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



  3. #83
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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Attacks on American soil 0.
    Attacks on American Soil from after the 1993 WTC to September 10th 2001? 0.

    I guess it'd have been accurate then to say on September 10th, 2001 unquestioningly that ALL of Clinton's policies worked perfectly.

    That's my issue. THIS IS NOT PROOF.

    CORRELATION DOES NOT PROVE CAUSATIOn.

    Just because we have not been attacked in our borders yet DOES NOT MEAN unquestionably Bush's policies are the reason for it. That doesn't PROVE anything. Its idiotic, illogical, and politically lazy to try and claim that THAT is the proof for your statement because on September 10th 2001 you could say the EXACT SAME THING about the Policies you're LAMBASTING.

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    That's such childish over simplification.

    Terrorist attack repeatedly, we treat them like criminals.

    Terrorist pull off 9/11

    We treat them much more harshly.

    No more attacks.

    Logic says, terrorist + harsh treatment = prevention.

    Unless of course, political sensibility is interjected... then reason goes out and emotion must be plugged in. Terrorist + any form of harsh treatment to save lives = politically incorrect.

    As several people have stated, mind boggingly so on here, they would rather terrorist succeed in killing innocent people then to "treat them harshly".
    No it's not, it's the very same logic as your "terrorist" argument. You haven't proved causation...hell you haven't even proven correlation (though I could buy a correlation). The only thing you've presented is coincidental and nothing more. As I said, I have a rock that scares away tigers. You don't see any tigers around...do you?

    5 terrorist attacks on US State soil since the 20's. And one of those was domestic. So I'm not about to start jumping up and down claiming great success from horrible increases in government and occupational war that is the longest war in US history and has no conceivable end at this point.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    But some humans need to be killed.
    There are circumstances where necessary evil must be taken. But I think we should do our best to limit the amount we engage in evil overall. If avoidable, we should avoid it.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    There are circumstances where necessary evil must be taken. But I think we should do our best to limit the amount we engage in evil overall. If avoidable, we should avoid it.



    This is true.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    We're better than they are, we can show mercy even to those whom wish us harm.
    And we want to do this because....????

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    And we want to do this because....????
    Because we are better.

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Because we are better.
    Sounds noble and all that....except how exactly is that "better"?

  10. #90
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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    And we want to do this because....????
    Because we're not animals. We know and can do better, and thus we should. There's a lot of value in the higher moral ground. I'd rather not jump off.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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