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Thread: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style Attac

  1. #521
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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    How many other people were waterboarded and didn't lead to any real information? I mean, you can't speak to any of the statistics; you cherry pick one circumstance and say "Huzzah! Waterboarding is great". It's fairly absurd.
    Well, there were three waterboarded. Two of them have already had information released that confirms there was valuable intel obtained. The third one, we only have the word of top US officials that it yielded valuable information.

    CT notwithstanding, the answer to your question is ZERO.

    Is that going to make any difference to your entrenched position? No.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 05-08-11 at 05:53 AM.

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by First Thought View Post
    Why is torture an option?
    To risk the wrath of the UN which is a bunch of Anti-Americans to save hubdreds or thousands of lives is worth it.

    Besiades from a report I saw yesterday there were only 3 or 4 in the Prison in Cuba that went through and most every high ranking afficer we have has been through it.

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    not in the case of ksm, the "preeminent source"
    How a Detainee Became An Asset - washingtonpost.com
    The facts just don't support the conclusion that the EITs were the deciding factor. The facts don't rule it out either.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    John Yoo
    Leon Panetta
    Jose Rodriguez
    Michael Hayden
    George Tenet
    All of these individuals have stated that KSM talked, because he was tortured and conventional interrogation methods had failed.
    If you examine their actual quotes, you may find that this isn't exactly so.
    Perhaps if we all saw the quotes you are referring to, we could all agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    .... most every high ranking afficer we have has been through it.
    According to the CIA Office of Medical Services, as quoted in the IG report, what happens in SERE class doesn't compare to what was done in the IETs. IIrc, the actual word used to describe the comparison between SERE classes and what happened in the EITs was "irrelevant."
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    The facts just don't support the conclusion that the EITs were the deciding factor.
    who said they were?

    eit's happened to play an important role, with zebaydah, ksm, ghul and libi

    so did gitmo, detention and wiretapping

    so did assassination

    it is what it is

    move on

    america is grateful for the anti terror policies of two presidents that enabled our heroic intel agents and navy seals to get the job done

    and obama the neocon doesn't appear to be done, he's learning to like it

    ask al awlaki

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    I think that a lot depends on how much time you have to get the info out of them (is there a critical need that is time dependent), and how accurate can it be on the first pass (since you don't have a lot of time).

    Given enough time, virtually all techniques work.

    Now, to assume that we will be treated as we treat them, it just isn't going to happen, we have been and will continue to be the ones to play fair.

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    So, a person won't lie during a conventional interrogation?
    Won't? Can't say that. but one of the reasons they study things like this is to see what is most likely, most effective. Because torture encourages them to say something, we will likely get misinformation. Now, we can point to al Libi giving us misinformation that we used in Powell's report to the UN. He was tortured, and he lied. This is specific, and verifiable. Can you point to something as speicifc and verifiable that shows we got good intel?

    Now, other methods lead to a situation that is more likely to be honest. We can assess better and their motivation different. Studies have shown other methods to be far more effective.

    It is not a case of all or nothing. This type of thinking hurt the Bush administration a lot. but when you factor in the law and ethics with the likihood of getting misinformation, torture becomes a clear loser. trying to creae a situaiton that doesn't really exist in the real world, the ticking time bomb nonsesne, doens't make torture any more effective, legal or moral.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    cia's ig report, released by eric holder on the monday preceding aug 29:

    ksm "cooperated to an extraordinary extent" only "after his spirit was broken" by eit's in the month after his capture

    he became langley's "preeminent source," conducting "terrorist tutorials," cluing intel in to aq's "key operatives and strategic doctrines"

    a network of 70 names was gathered, arrests were made, detainees were "leveraged and cross referenced" using intel provided to extract more

    "waterboarding and sleep deprivation were the most powerful techniques" and "elicited a lot of information"

    it is what it is, per cia's ig, as released by eric holder

    credit goes to barack the slasher obama for NOT dismantling the anti terror tactics initiated by his predecessor, thus allowing our agents and seals to get ubl

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    cia's ig report, released by eric holder on the monday preceding aug 29:

    ksm "cooperated to an extraordinary extent" only "after his spirit was broken" by eit's in the month after his capture

    he became langley's "preeminent source," conducting "terrorist tutorials," cluing intel in to aq's "key operatives and strategic doctrines"

    a network of 70 names was gathered, arrests were made, detainees were "leveraged and cross referenced" using intel provided to extract more

    "waterboarding and sleep deprivation were the most powerful techniques" and "elicited a lot of information"

    it is what it is, per cia's ig, as released by eric holder

    credit goes to barack the slasher obama for NOT dismantling the anti terror tactics initiated by his predecessor, thus allowing our agents and seals to get ubl
    While all this serves as a giant "Duh!" to anyone supporting EITs and whatnot, I'm uncomfortable with how willing we are to share the techniques that have worked.

    I'm more uncomfortable with how we're so willing to describe how our operation worked the day we killed him.

    And still even more uncomfortable how we're willing to describe the intel we got in the process.

    Don't give them the playbook. Please tell me we're hiding a lot more than we're telling.

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    While all this serves as a giant "Duh!" to anyone supporting EITs and whatnot, I'm uncomfortable with how willing we are to share the techniques that have worked.

    I'm more uncomfortable with how we're so willing to describe how our operation worked the day we killed him.

    And still even more uncomfortable how we're willing to describe the intel we got in the process.

    Don't give them the playbook. Please tell me we're hiding a lot more than we're telling.
    By working, you mean like the misinformation of al Libi's we used pre Iraq invasion?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    no, silly

    working, according to the cia's ig as released by holder, means turning ksm from "an avowed and truculent enemy" into langley's "preeminent source"

    i thought you said you could think

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