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Thread: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style Attac

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    It is not "DIRECTLY" responsible.
    Sure it was. It lead to the couriers as the intelligence approach for capturing/killing bin laden.


    The courier is what lead us directly to bin laden.. Win!



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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Umm.. In case you missed it, EIT was responsible, DIRECTLY responsible for the eventual capture of Bin Laden. It also lead to many interceptions of various terrorists plots purported to have been planned against the USA during the past 9 years.. KSM talked, various other Muslim's talked..
    Cite evidence (from an authoritative source who is free to speak his mind) that waterboarding caused KSM to talk, or that anything he said directly contributed to OBL's death (assuming the raid happened as the US described it).
    Last edited by solletica; 05-07-11 at 12:42 AM.

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I would disagree then. An immoral act for any reason is still an immoral act. It may be justified for the greater good, though. Such as stealing food to feed your family. You did good with the stealing, but you still stole.
    I believe people should get what they deserve. So if a terrorist who masterminded plots to bomb buildings is caught, I say beat the !@#$ out of him, let him have it.

    Since I'm not Xtian, I don't have to abide by all the "Love thy neighbor" BS.

    Although an exception should be made for foot soldiers, because they frequently are just brainwashed individuals who just followed orders without understanding the motives of those gave them.

    However, I'm also a pragmatist. If torture techniques like waterboarding worked to extract information, then it should be used. However, all the experts, when interviewed when not under political pressure, claim torture is ineffectual. . .

    A former federal agent who was involved in the interrogation of terrorism suspects said in congressional testimony Wednesday that the harsh techniques used by the Bush administration were ineffective and unreliable.

    Ali Soufan told a Senate judicial committee that al-Qaeda operatives were trained to resist the harsh methods, including waterboarding, and argued that conventional interrogations were much more reliable in extracting information.

    FBI Expert Refutes GOP Claims on Torture Effectiveness (video) (Wizbang Blue)
    That's from an actual ex-interrogator.

    Whereas it appears the pro-EIT crowd, to back up its position, does not cite from ex-interrogators or outside psychologists or torture experts, but rather from politicians, media pundits, or individuals still working for the government who, obviously, cannot speak freely.
    Last edited by solletica; 05-07-11 at 12:28 AM.

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Sure it was. It lead to the couriers as the intelligence approach for capturing/killing bin laden.


    The courier is what lead us directly to bin laden.. Win!



    Tim-
    According to ex-interrogators, he merely supplied the alias of the courier, not his real name and/or his whereabouts.
    Last edited by solletica; 05-07-11 at 12:51 AM.

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    I wonder if any the pro-EIT people are aware that terrorists--at least the ones in the top levels of an organization--are trained to resist ig methods like waterboarding.

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    I wonder if any the pro-EIT people are aware that terrorists--at least the ones in the top levels of an organization--are trained to resist ig methods like waterboarding.
    After all the talk of what waterboarding actually is, if I were subjected to it, I would be relieved. I would know it wouldn't kill me. The anti-EIT people and all the attention they brought to it taught me that, and I'm not even top level in my organization.

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I don't think waterboarding three terrorists under ticking-bomb circumstances constitutes a loss of humanity, decency or morality.
    Only such a situation doesn't real exist in the real world. To have exactly the right person with exactly the right information is more than a little unlikely. Secondly, all the person has to do is lie, which is what is common. Meaning we likely could not get anything in time. One reason why other methods are more commonly used is because they are largely more effective.

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    One reason why other methods are more commonly used is because they are largely more effective.
    not in the case of ksm, the "preeminent source"

    How a Detainee Became An Asset - washingtonpost.com

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    Cite evidence (from an authoritative source who is free to speak his mind) that waterboarding caused KSM to talk, or that anything he said directly contributed to OBL's death (assuming the raid happened as the US described it).
    John Yoo
    Leon Panetta
    Jose Rodriguez
    Michael Hayden
    George Tenet

    All of these individuals have stated that KSM talked, because he was tortured and conventional interrogation methods had failed.

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Only such a situation doesn't real exist in the real world. To have exactly the right person with exactly the right information is more than a little unlikely. Secondly, all the person has to do is lie, which is what is common. Meaning we likely could not get anything in time. One reason why other methods are more commonly used is because they are largely more effective.
    So, a person won't lie during a conventional interrogation?

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